Comment by fidotron

Comment by fidotron a day ago

If you are good those numbers are an order of magnitude off. In truth it is probably mostly auth or something. If you simply avoid json you can radically attack these things fast.

RTT to nearest major metro DC should be up to 20ms (where I am it is less than half that), your DB calls should not be anything like 200ms (and in the event they are you need to show something else first), and 10-20ms is what you should assume for rendering budget of something very big. 60hz means 16ms per frame after all.

gf000 a day ago

What percentile? Topics like these don't talk about the 5G connected iphone 16 pro max, but have to include low-end phones with old OS versions and bad connectivity (e.g. try the same network connectivity in the London metro, where often there is no receiption whatsoever).

As you reach for higher percentiles, RTT and such start growing very fast.

Edit: other commenter mentioned 75% as percentile.

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fingerlocks a day ago

Independent of connectivity, UI rendering should be well under the device refresh rate. Consider the overhead of a modern video game that runs 60fps without a hiccup. It’s ludicrous that a CRUD app which usually only populates some text fields and maybe a small image or two can’t do the same

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- gf000 a day ago
  
  That's a page load, not a frame render.
  Also, due to layouting, a CRUD app may actually be harder to optimize per frame, than the trivial to parallelize many triangle case as seen in games.
  
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  fingerlocks a day ago
  
  OP gave a render budget of 100ms _after_ the data has loaded. That’s unacceptable. If this were a MacOS app, that would mean dragging a window corner to resize the content , forcing a new layout and redraw, would yield 10 fps of change. And yet nearly all native apps redraw and layout instantly, even with complex tables of text at various fonts and sizes.
  This is also a great litmus test to check if an app was made with electron because they always redraw slowly.
  
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fidotron a day ago

> What percentile?
There's no argument that starts this way which doesn't end either with "support working offline", or defining when you consider that a user has stepped out of bounds with respect to acceptable parameters, which then raises the question what do you do in that event?
If all you're trying to do is say 75% of users have a good experience, and in your territory 75% means a 150ms and that's too long then the network cannot be in your critical path, and you have to deal with it. If you're on a low end phone any I/O at all is going to kill you, including loading too much code, and needs to be out of the way.
If you can tell the UX is going to be bad you will need to abort and tell them that, though they really will not like it, it's often better to prevent such users ever getting your app in the first place.
I come from mobile games, and supported titles with tens of millions of players around the world back in the early 4G era. All I can tell you is not once did mobile ping become a concern - in fact those networks are shockingly good compared to wifi.

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x0x0 a day ago

> RTT to nearest major metro DC should be up to 20ms (where I am it is less than half that)

over a mobile network? My best rtt to azure or aws over tmobile or verizon is 113ms vs 13ms over my fiber conection.

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fidotron a day ago

With times like that you'd be better off with Starlink!
I'm not joking: https://www.pcmag.com/news/is-starlink-good-for-gaming-we-pu...
Are you doing the 113 test from the actual device, or something tethered to it? For example, you don't want a bluetooth stack in the middle.

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- x0x0 a day ago
  
  straight off my android phone by disabling wifi then moving through my 2 sims
  
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  fidotron a day ago
  
  That is odd then, but it is odd.
  I can only guess the connectivity between your mast and the Internet is awfully congested, and/or you are in the middle of nowhere.
  One of the reasons starlink does as well as it does is the ground stations are well connected to the wider world, whereas your nearest cell mast might not be.
  
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  harrall a day ago
  
  Nah it could also be differing peering agreements with the ISP and the data center you are connecting to.
  On T-Mobile, I get 30ms to Cloudflare but 150ms to my local AWS.
  But I also get 450 mbps on T-Mobile so I’m not complaining.
  
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  throw5959 a day ago
  
  If you have a dual SIM phone, try to swap your SIMs.
  
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  pinoy420 a day ago
  
  Don’t take the bait. It is a typical hn hyperbole comment
  
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[removed] a day ago

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