graemep 2 months ago

Not what I meant, but capital gains are another issue, but I am not in the US. In the UK we pay a 0.5% tax on ever transaction and often around £10 per transaction, so its quite substantial. I should probably have said costs, not fees.

How much are total costs in the US?

If you trade frequently even low costs add up. If its 0.1% and you trade monthly it ends up being 1.2% over the course of an year.

  • matwood 2 months ago

    10+/trade is going back to the early 2000s for the US.

    Now it's effectively 0 for most common trades. Here is Schwab for example:

    https://www.schwab.com/pricing

    If someone is a big options trader they can probably find a better per contract price out there.

    • graemep 2 months ago

      How do they profit? There must be a cost somewhere? Another reply mentioned spreads - still a cost (you lose money when you trade).

      • matwood 2 months ago

        AUM, managing high wealth clients, running their own funds with expense ratios (also some of the lowest in the industry), uninvested cash, etc... Retail trading is commoditized now.

        Anyone who really cares about spreads will be using limit orders. Otherwise you're talking about pennies on highly liquid shares.

        The fact that we're even discussing the possible spread differences between market makers shows just how commoditized retail trading has become.

      • thefreeman 2 months ago

        the sell order flow to market makers who gobble up the other side of bad retail trades

      • eru 2 months ago

        Low cost brokerages mostly earn money from the interest rate differential, ie what they pay from your un-invested balances vs what interest they pay you.

        They also earn some money from 'payment for order flow'.

  • wil421 2 months ago

    All the major US brokers started doing free trades for stocks and etfs. For Vanguard, most of the index expense ratios are really low, like %.05 percent, but that’s not a trading fee.

    • AdamN 2 months ago

      Even for paid transactions that typically give better pricing (IBKR Pro), the prices are extremely cheap.

    • 4ndrewl 2 months ago

      How do they make money from you as a customer?

      • tim333 2 months ago

        Quite a lot of customers either have cash sitting in the account which they make interest on, or have margin debt which they charge for.

        • 4ndrewl 2 months ago

          Interesting, thanks. For a minute I was expecting someone to say "ads"

      • matwood 2 months ago

        You can Google it, but AUM at scale means .03% is a significant amount of money. There's also uninvested cash that the broker can invest in t-bills and take the spread.

        • 4ndrewl 2 months ago

          Thanks for the lmgtfy :)

          I bet the uninvested cash product drives some weird incentives - kpis around increasing ratio of sells to buys and increasing pain around removing cash.

      • jkolio 2 months ago

        Front-running your trade.

ifwinterco 2 months ago

You also pay a spread every time you trade, especially if you're using a retail brokerage like robin hood that sells order flow to market makers.

It doesn't show up anywhere in your statement, but it's a real trading fee nonetheless, so it's still better not to trade too much

  • kortilla 2 months ago

    Retail is offered tighter spreads because it’s safe to assume they have no edge at scale.

WalterBright 2 months ago

The explicit fees are near zero, but if you watch your trade you always get an adverse price.

  • pxx 2 months ago

    what are you talking about. you're not going to fill worse than nbbo

maest 2 months ago

You pay the spread and you also have impact in the market.

  • intuitionist 2 months ago

    If you’re trading US large-cap stocks at low frequency these are not really material costs for even a wealthy retail investor. Certainly not next to taxes.

    • eru 2 months ago

      The spread is a material cost, but the market impact is negligible for retail investors, yes.