Comment by graemep

Comment by graemep 3 days ago

26 replies

Not what I meant, but capital gains are another issue, but I am not in the US. In the UK we pay a 0.5% tax on ever transaction and often around £10 per transaction, so its quite substantial. I should probably have said costs, not fees.

How much are total costs in the US?

If you trade frequently even low costs add up. If its 0.1% and you trade monthly it ends up being 1.2% over the course of an year.

matwood 3 days ago

10+/trade is going back to the early 2000s for the US.

Now it's effectively 0 for most common trades. Here is Schwab for example:

https://www.schwab.com/pricing

If someone is a big options trader they can probably find a better per contract price out there.

  • graemep 3 days ago

    How do they profit? There must be a cost somewhere? Another reply mentioned spreads - still a cost (you lose money when you trade).

    • eru 4 hours ago

      Low cost brokerages mostly earn money from the interest rate differential, ie what they pay from your un-invested balances vs what interest they pay you.

      They also earn some money from 'payment for order flow'.

    • matwood 3 days ago

      AUM, managing high wealth clients, running their own funds with expense ratios (also some of the lowest in the industry), uninvested cash, etc... Retail trading is commoditized now.

      Anyone who really cares about spreads will be using limit orders. Otherwise you're talking about pennies on highly liquid shares.

      The fact that we're even discussing the possible spread differences between market makers shows just how commoditized retail trading has become.

    • thefreeman 3 days ago

      the sell order flow to market makers who gobble up the other side of bad retail trades

      • xen0 2 days ago

        I highly doubt market makers are in the business of betting against retail traders.

        I suspect they're in the business of collecting the spread on lots of small trades that they can assume are largely random.

      • graemep 3 days ago

        Which means that your cost is market maker's spreads instead of fees. Still a cost to you.

wil421 3 days ago

All the major US brokers started doing free trades for stocks and etfs. For Vanguard, most of the index expense ratios are really low, like %.05 percent, but that’s not a trading fee.

  • AdamN 3 days ago

    Even for paid transactions that typically give better pricing (IBKR Pro), the prices are extremely cheap.

  • 4ndrewl 3 days ago

    How do they make money from you as a customer?

    • tim333 3 days ago

      Quite a lot of customers either have cash sitting in the account which they make interest on, or have margin debt which they charge for.

      • 4ndrewl 3 days ago

        Interesting, thanks. For a minute I was expecting someone to say "ads"

    • matwood 3 days ago

      You can Google it, but AUM at scale means .03% is a significant amount of money. There's also uninvested cash that the broker can invest in t-bills and take the spread.

      • 4ndrewl 3 days ago

        Thanks for the lmgtfy :)

        I bet the uninvested cash product drives some weird incentives - kpis around increasing ratio of sells to buys and increasing pain around removing cash.

    • jkolio 2 days ago

      Front-running your trade.

      • kortilla 2 days ago

        This is illegal and is absolutely the dumbest way to make money.

      • valkmit 2 days ago

        nice try buddy, that’s ILLEGAL

        • jkolio a day ago

          Oh no, I guess someone will be going to jail!

          ...No? Then, uh, a punitive judgment?

          >Small fine that amounts to a cost-of-doing-business.

          Ah. Hm.