Comment by lenerdenator 4 days ago
Oh, you could probably make some effective arguments that they're using it to influence American thought in a way that's designed to diminish the US as a world power through internal strife.
Israel/Hamas would probably be an example.
For example, here's the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide
Wikipedia is the subject of a very large pro-Palestinian propaganda campaign:
https://www.piratewires.com/p/how-wikipedia-s-pro-hamas-edit...
And they have banned several of those involved, though obviously each of the thousands who participated should be banned:
https://www.jpost.com/business-and-innovation/article-833180
What about the groups linked in the wikipedia article: Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, the UN Special Committee to investigate Israeli practices and the United Nations Special Rapporteur ?
Those seem less biased sources than The Jerusalem Post
The source here isn't the JP, it's wikipedia. Wikipedia investigated and banned the editors. JP is just the reporter. You can find other news sites with the same news, or Wikipedia itself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_and_the_Israeli%E2%8...
Those human rights groups, unfortunately, have a long history of bias and foreign influence. The closer they are to the UN, the more political they are. Literally half of the UN's resolutions pertain to Israel - while 99.999% of war deaths, famine, modern slavery, etc, happen without Israel being involved. The UN was led by a literal Nazi in the 70s - Kurt Waldheim - and the last few UN Secretary Generals have said that there is a serious bias against Israel there (obvious from the obsession).
Religious flamewar isn't allowed on HN, and your comment crosses that line. Please don't post like this here.
(yes, this is the case regardless of which religion(s) are being flamed)
> No, it really isn't.
I wonder what you know about Genocide better than experts in Holocaust studies and other genocides themselves.
William Schabas, author of the 741-page textbook, "Genocide in International Law" - says it's a genocide in Gaza.
John Quigley, author of the 300-page book, "The Genocide Convention: An International Law Analysis" - says it's a genocide in Gaza.
@martinshawx, author of the books "What is Genocide?" and "War and Genocide" - says it's a genocide.
@dirkmoses, author of the 600-page book, "The Problems of Genocide" - says it's a genocide in Gaza.
Raz Segal, author of "Genocide in the Carpathians" - says it's a genocide in Gaza.
Amos Goldberg, author of books on Holocaust, says it's a genocide in Gaza
@bartov_omer, author of several books on Holocaust and genocide, says it's a genocide in Gaza.
But why to listen to the experts in law and genocide studies? Why to bother to read the extensive human rights reports?
Listen to @piersmorgan instead; he has a gut feeling.
> This is war, this is how it goes.
Yeah, war is how "I was just following orders" German troops justified killing 12m+ in concentration camps. Goebbels said, "The Jews are responsible for the war. The treatment they receive from us is hardly unjust. They have deserved it all." Don't be like Goebbels.
> the 2 billion Muslims that hate Jews
Yeah, well: I know a handful Muslims who married Jews.
> and all you did was bitch on the internet, I'd be ashamed to know you
Same.
Unfortunately, popular opinion - at least of the far left - has always been united against Israel. In fact, many of those authors called it a genocide before this war. You can find plenty of such accusations on Twitter from prior to 10/10, when Israel started responding to the attack. You have many groups blaming Israel for all sorts of absurd things - like the fires in California. I wish I was joking. If not for Israel and the Jews, we'd have world peace - at least that's what you'd think if you listened to these groups.
It is an extension of populist antisemitism. I encourage you to think about this on your own: why is Israel condemned for 45k deaths in a war they didn't start, where half of the killed are militants, where Israel is literally providing aid to their enemy, while the Houthis, responsible for 300k dead in the past decade, including many children via starvation, who have brought back slavery in Yemen, are lauded for attacking western shipping and have fanboys of one of their murderous pirates? Where is the criticism for Muslims planning terror attacks against the west, and against individual Jews globally? Why do leftists love the idea of jihad and intifada, but not a nation defending itself?
Meanwhile, most "genocide" decriers seem to have ignored the tens of thousands of rockets, missiles, and drones launched at Israeli civilians from Gaza, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, and Yemen. They ignore the videos of Gazans chearing in the streets and spitting on corpses. The open calls for exterminating the Jews from the Houthis, Hezbollah, Hamas, PIJ, Iran, and more. There is one side calling for the extermination of the other and taking actions to make it so - the Muslims trying to destroy Israel and calling for and taking actions to kill Jews globally.
> In fact, many of those authors called it a genocide before this war.
That's because Ralph Lemkin, who coined the term "Genocide" in the wake of the Shoah, identified 10 stages, and mass extinction event is the final stage. He posited that once mass extinction commences it almost impossible to stop without incurring a significant cost to whoever wants to stop it (and so, he implored powers-that-be recognize it before the event & not after): https://www.genocidewatch.com/tenstages
> If not for Israel and the Jews, we'd have world peace - at least that's what you'd think if you listened to these groups.
I know. And it is totally absurd like you say. Racists (antisemites in this case) will never make any sense. Historians specializing in genocide / Holocaust, on the other hand, are experts in their fields.
> Where is the criticism for Muslims planning terror attacks against the west, and against individual Jews globally?
You are joking? ALL Muslims are vilified by many in almost every Western country and in countries where Muslims are a significant minority (like India). Like antisemitism, anti-Muslim racism is every which where.
> the Muslims trying to destroy Israel
Unsure why you blame ALL 2b Muslims. I mean, you're no different than those antisemites who blame the Jewish people for all of world's problems. As a test, replace "Muslims" with "Jews" in your sentences and see if they read antisemitic to you.
Besides, Pakistan, a Muslim country, has 300+ nuclear warheads and Inter-continental ballistic missiles capability; and if ALL Muslims without exception, like you say, are rabidly hell-bent on destroying Israel, what are the Pakistanis waiting for? Please, snap out of this Islamophobic hysteria.
I mean, I'm not on TikTok at all and Israel is committing a genocide. China didn't tell me that, the Israeli's killing Palestinians en masse told me that. Because that's what the word "genocide" means.
It seems to be if the US Government wants not to be associated with a genocide-committing country they should just... do that. TikTok might have the largest share of the pro-Palestine mood as it were, but like... it's on all the platforms. Because again... they're committing a genocide, and filming it.
I would argue that even though you're not on tiktok, you are being influenced by the narrative that China is pushing. There are numerous genocides happening in the world today. Sudan. China (try talking about THAT one on TikTok...). Why aren't those being treated with equal concern? Because China knows that only the Isreal/Gaza one is a wedge in America, so they push that to sow discord.
Which one is the US funding, and using UN vetos to continue?
We're an active participant in, its not a surprise its the one we (USA ppl) care about.
> Why aren't those being treated with equal concern?
I mean I can't speak to other people's experience, but as an American, I'm uniquely pissed off with the Israeli one because my tax dollars are paying for it, and because the White House could stop it at a time of their choosing, as they've done before.
What makes this a genocide and not every other war where far more people, including more civilians, died? And at higher ratios of the dead? You can find hundreds of videos of Israel targeting militants, Hamas using schools and hospitals as bases, and more.
Nearly a million died in the Iraq war. In a single battle, Mosul, almost as many were killed as in Gaza, including similar ratios of militants and civilians. In Ukraine, far more have been killed, both combatants and civilians - and Russia clearly targets civilians there, and they started the war (while Hamas started the Gaza war). In Syria, half a million died, mostly civilians. Ditto the Lebanese civil war. Ditto the Yemen-Houthi war.
This feels so obvious to explain that I can't help but feel like it's condescending, but a conflict is not a genocide, irrespective of it's death toll. If you looked up the definition:
> the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
Which is just 100% what Israel is attempting to do to Palestine, and they're not exactly being coy about it.
Your assertion is obviously not true. This is why they target militants and post the videos and explanations on the internet. You can find hundreds or thousands of such videos. It’s why they send texts hours before bombing. It’s why they do roof knocks. It’s why they provide safe passage and humanitarian zones. It’s why they drop leaflets. It’s why they still provide electricity, water, and food to Gaza. I read a report about how they asked a Palestinian to alert his neighbors via a phone call and waited for him to tell everyone to get out. These are steps no other nation takes, and it is easy to find experts confirming that. It’s why there are only 45k dead instead of 2 million.
If Israel wanted to maximize casualties, there would not be a Palestinian alive today. What would be their incentive to stop? The far left claims it’s a genocide as it is. What would actually killing them all be, then? Double genocide? You have used the worst term you can to describe something very far from the worst Israel could do.
And then of course, is the obvious contradiction that they just agreed to a ceasefire for their hostages. Just like they did in November 2023. And how they agreed to a ceasefire in Lebanon despite all the cries of them trying to seize the land. Israel wants to be left alone to live; the Palestinians (and the other neighboring Arab nations) want to kill all the Israelis and destroy Israel. The rest of the world wants these positions to meet in the middle, so there we are in the middle ground: perpetual war. Go look at the Hamas and Hezbollah founding charters, or the Houthi flag, or everything Iran says.
Its clear to anyone that's looking that what's happening in Gaza is a genocide