Comment by MathMonkeyMan

Comment by MathMonkeyMan 4 days ago

12 replies

I wonder what happened. Traffic stop, seizure of "life savings," something about the drug enforcement agency.

I can guess what happened, but it would be nice to know the story behind the lawsuit. Like... cop did a search, found a ton of cash, took it as if it were drug money, gave the money to feds, never charged anybody with a crime, feds give most of the money to the cop's precinct. But I just made that up.

On the other hand, the point of the post is to explain the legal argument that won, and its implications for upholding the right against unreasonable search and seizure. And it did that.

pizza234 4 days ago

It's written in a referenced article (https://ij.org/case/nevada-civil-forfeiture/):

> On his drive from Texas to California, a Nevada Highway Patrol officer engineered a reason to pull him over, saying that he passed too closely to a tanker truck. The officer who pulled Stephen over complimented his driving but nevertheless prolonged the stop and asked a series of questions about Stephen’s life and travels. Stephen told the officer that his life savings was in the trunk. Another group of officers arrived, and Stephen gave them permission to search his car. They found a backpack with Stephen’s money, just where he said it would be, along with receipts showing all his bank withdrawals. After a debate amongst the officers, which was recorded on body camera footage, they decided to seize his life savings.

> After that, months passed, and the DEA missed the deadlines set by federal law for it to either return the money or file a case explaining what the government believes Stephen did wrong. So Stephen teamed up with the Institute for Justice to get his money back. It was only after IJ brought a lawsuit against the DEA to return Stephen’s money, and his story garnered national press attention, that the federal government agreed to return his money. In fact, they did so just a day after he filed his lawsuit, showing that they had no basis to hold it.

  • Over2Chars 4 days ago

    The part about the receipts I had missed.

    Although volunteering information about anything seems suspect.

    And it also seems to be a matter of DEA dropping the ball, but perhaps they foot drag knowing that anyone with illegal money isn't going to ask for it back, as they'd have to explain why they had it.

    I wonder if Elon is going to suggest we defund the DEA as part of his "DOGE"?

    • UncleMeat 3 days ago

      While you are legally allowed to refuse search of your vehicle, in practice people get brutalized for standing up for their rights all the time. The exact boundaries of your legal rights are also not clear to most people (even many lawyers) so you risk refusing an actually legal order and ending up in even more trouble.

      Plus, a cop can just call for a canine squad and then get the canine to signal and then use that as probable cause for a search if they really want to fuck your day up in a way that is totally legal.

      This makes the idea that you should just confidently advocate for your 4th amendment rights actually pretty unappealing.

      • hiatus 3 days ago

        > Plus, a cop can just call for a canine squad and then get the canine to signal and then use that as probable cause for a search if they really want to fuck your day up in a way that is totally legal.

        Can't make you wait around for a canine without probable cause. https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/239513-court-ru...

        > While officers may use a dog to sniff around a car during the course of a routine traffic stop, they cannot extend the length of the stop in order to carry it out.

    • potato3732842 3 days ago

      >I wonder if Elon is going to suggest we defund the DEA as part of his "DOGE"?

      I hope. Bespoke single police agencies only serve the purpose of sucking up resources to enforce stuff that a broad police agency (like the FBI) would never or could not justify allocating so many resources toward.

      You get these agencies like the DEA that build up this headcount and budget and then go justify it by engaging in all sorts of bad crap. The FBI would rarely (I'm not gonna say never) waste time going after college kids for making "more than personal use" amounts of acid. If they want to waste man hours on petty things to justify their budget they have a whole laundry list of more legitimate petty things to enforce first.

      • Over2Chars 3 days ago

        Well, with all due respect to the heroic efforts of the vast majority of the DEA, if we judge them by their total success or failure, I'd have to go with "failure" as far as the US is concerned.

        Being a massive drug market with people dying from drugs on a daily basis is not exactly a shining indicator of success.

        That said, for the DEA to succeed we'd need a massive amount of coordination - which is to say real leadership on this issue, I think which may be beyond the DEA by itself.

    • pizza234 4 days ago

      > Although volunteering information about anything seems suspect.

      I don't live in the USA, but to my understanding, it’s common for individuals from minority groups to be taught by their families specific behaviors for interacting with police, such as how to position their hands. I wouldn’t be surprised if this also includes notifying the police about personal belongings that could potentially raise suspicion.

      • scarface_74 4 days ago

        As a minority, you are taught where to hold your hands. But we taught our sons - “don’t talk to the police when questioned”.

        We also taught them in case they did have to call the police in case of something like a home break-in, describe themselves. We lived in a city that was less than 4% Black and was a famous “sundown town” as late as the mid 80s

    • YawningAngel 4 days ago

      It might be naive, but I don't think it's suspicious to be forthright with the police