Comment by Arainach 4 days ago
>Why can't it keep going?
Because an educated populace is harder for the ultrarich to control and abuse, because an educated populace with free time can revolt against those in power, and because as a consequence of those two things ultrarich conservatives have consolidated ownership of media and used it to defund education and convince the population that funding education is bad.
This isn't the slam dunk you think it is. The article indicates that money isn't evenly distributed, which explains the conservatives goal with vouchers and charter / private schools.
My SO taught at all 3 kinds of the school in the US, in urban and suburban areas. The pay is bad everywhere, but worst at the non-union schools. Only teachers left have no better options or believe in the religion or cause of teaching, and even they tend to leave such schools the moment they have enough experience or better options. None of this is good for the kids at such schools.
The more affluent schools can afford to hire experts and keep them. I went to a rich(er) high school and had my choice among many specialty electives and advanced placement. My SO attended a highschool that was something between prison and daycare. My friend's private school was a religious indoctrination factory. Home schooled friends were often academical average to great, all socially awkward well into adulthood, and many were taught conspiracies or outright lies as long as it fit their parents "biblical worldview".
Public school was an escape from a cult-like community for me. I'm grateful my parents were too poor to force me into an alternative until I was old enough to refuse.
Incorrect, in most states poor districts receive slightly more funding than affluent ones: https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/90586/...
It sounds like you have a beef with how citizens socialize their children into the dominant religion of the society—which is literally considered a human right[1]—and less so with how schools are funded in the U.S.
See Article 18.4 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights: https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/... (“The States Parties to the present Covenant undertake to have respect for the liberty of parents and, when applicable, legal guardians to ensure the religious and moral education of their children in conformity with their own convictions.”)
American subgroups that socialize their children into community religious norms are among the most successful. For example, Mormons: https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2020/11/utahs-economic-ex....
Prohibitions on religious education in public schools—which don’t exist in many developed countries, such as Germany and Sweden—hurts the majority of people who would do better under that system.
Urban teachers are not getting rich teaching poor kids. Having seen the classrooms first hand, the kids lives are like a low-grade war zone. Sometimes they even work themselves to pay for their charter school tuition, and keep the lights on at home. Siphoning public funds off to the pockets of PE owned schools is not going to improve outcomes.
Mormons' affluence is in spite of their faith, not because of it. Utah also has more MLMs and scams than most others.
Having lived in a cult-like religion, I'd rather be less wealthy yet mentally well than 'socialized' into magical thinking and all the various idiotic garbage I was taught. Public schools are often one of the only ways kids can escape abusive, exploitive, or otherwise unhealthy circumstances.
> Urban teachers are not getting rich teaching poor kids. Having seen the classrooms first hand, the kids lives are like a low-grade war zone. Sometimes they even work themselves to pay for their charter school tuition, and keep the lights on at home. Siphoning public funds off to the pockets of PE owned schools is not going to improve outcomes.
Nobody is getting rich running schools. But everyone in the Baltimore public school district continues to draw salaries even though in some high schools many kids are reading at a kindergarten level. https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/77-tested-at....
So let the PE folks take their shot, or at least provide ways for the small fraction of involved parents to get their kids out of failing schools.
> Mormons' affluence is in spite of their faith, not because of it.
Mormons were literally driven out of the rest of the country for their religious beliefs and settled land that has no resources and can barely support farms and agriculture. Yet they built a thriving civilization in the middle of nowhere. Utah is one of the most stunning success stories in the world, up there with Israel and Singapore.
> Having lived in a cult-like religion, I'd rather be less wealthy yet mentally well than 'socialized' into magical thinking and all the various idiotic garbage I was taught. Public schools are often one of the only ways kids can escape abusive, exploitive, or otherwise unhealthy circumstances.
Mormons are tied with Jews for the happiest people in the country. Being socialized into religion, with uniform norms and expectations, is for most people mentally healthy. They’re also literally healthier. They live significantly longer than non-LDS white people: https://www.demographic-research.org/volumes/vol10/3/10-3.pd....
You're delusional. Revolt always came from people with an empty stomach, not from the comfortable leisure class.
Plus, an "educated" populace is as easy or maybe even easier to control, it's willpower against all odds that characterizes the truly ungovernable.
The fact that you believe the ultra rich conspire to control and abuse the uneducated shows that you are part of that group of average people parents want their kids to stay away from.
I agree with this and that's why I think social media, mass media and so on exist.
However I'm curious as to why you attribute or limit this to 'conservatives' only. Is this really something exclusive or characteristic of the conservative side? At least where I am from it's the left that's more interventionist in regards to education rather than the right, that interventionism being used to make education more rigid and controlled by a biased government.
And the media is definitely not consolidated, you've got clearly two sides competing at a pretty equal level.
Establishing standards for education and defunding public schools to siphon the funds to churches are not the same thing. Conservatives have been attacking and defunding educational standards and attacking the educated and the concept of education - hence the repeated claims of "liberal bias", the artificial cultural war against university, etc.
And two sides at equal levels? Are you living in 1979? Local media is nearly all Sinclair. All the cable networks are owned by conservatives. Even traditionally liberal newspapers like the Washington Post are owned by rich assholes taking over the editorial board. And social media in the US is now dominated by two literal fascists.
My apologies for not being from (or exclusively referring to) the US of A.
From where I'm from I'd say yes, both sides at equal levels more or less, fairly favoured toward the left, but now changing a wee bit because the left went waaaaay too left.
Europe would now seem to be shifting towards the right at some levels, but from historically (recently at least) being fairly leftist.
Anyway, aren't CNN, MSNBC, The Guardian... overtly left-leaning?
>Anyway, aren't CNN, MSNBC, The Guardian... overtly left-leaning
For CNN and MSNBC, no. Neither was every truly liberal in the global sense (like the Democratic Party, closer to centrist than anything else) and both have started drifting rightward in the last 4 years such that they're now roughly "American Centrist" with a slight left lean i.e. conservative in most of the rest of the world.
And that actually makes sense from a strictly logical point of view. The extremes are the ones who precisely don't want to conform to the status quo imposed by the alleged controlling higher powers.
As purely anecdotical data, where I'm from it's actually the opposite, majority hippies, vegan, alternative/free education advocates, etc, and a minority of mostly morally-concerned non-left-leaning (mainly religious) people, as well as specific cases of children with special needs that simply can't adapt to public education because of external reasons (bullies).
As a matter of fact, the hardcore religious right in my country have their own private education institutions, which are quite powerful themselves.
So even the (non-catholic) Christians who homeschool because of religious and moral convictions end up being moderate/center people trying to move away from both extremes.
The irony of saying that while being uneducated enough to think anyone ever “defunded education.” https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/02/do-we-shortch...