Comment by UniverseHacker

Comment by UniverseHacker 17 hours ago

3 replies

This is the same argument the authors make to reviewer #3:

"At this moment, we think that the thermal energy can be supplied to the devices from the surrounding air which possesses thermal energy such as 25 meV at room temperature. The air surrounding the devices can be considered as an infinite heat bath, and the analogized conditions of steady light irradiation in a solar cell, i.e., “photon absorption,” are considered to be formed by “phonon absorption.”"

This sounds like nonsense to me- I don't think a solar cell would function without a gradient either, e.g. if the cell itself were the same temperature as the light source.

squidgedcricket 13 hours ago

Does a photon carry information about the temperature of it's source?

What about photons from non-thermal sources? A PV panel is able to generate electrical current from photons generated by LEDs, bioluminescence, and indirect light reflected off a cold surface.

  • gus_massa 12 hours ago

    [Hard question!]

    Each photon, no. But the distribution of the spectrum of a black body follows a pattern that depends on the temperature (and other stuff).

    <bold>The important part is that the PV panel not only absorbs photons, it also emits photons. Usually the emission is much much much smaller than the light it absorbs.</bold>

    If you assume that the PV panel is another black body and the sun is another black body, then the energy must flow from the hot one to the cold one.

    Real objects are not perfect black bodies, so you have emission and absorcion coefficients that makes the calculation harder.

    For LEDs, bioluminescence, lasers, and other sources, the calculation is harder because the distribution of light in the spectrum is different, and they usually don't match. You must consider work, entropy, and more technical stuff. But the oversimplified version is that the energy also flows from the "hot" to the "cold" one. You need a gradient of temperature or something equivalent to make the energy flow.

    PS1: You can use a LED as a light detector, like a photodiode. It's somewhat the inverse effect of using a PV panel as a lamp.

    PS2: I know that <bold></bold> doesn't work in HN, but that it's the important paragraph.

  • UniverseHacker 12 hours ago

    Yes, indirectly- this is how infrared thermometers can measure temperature at a distance. If there is no temperature differential then both surfaces will be radiating the same number of photons at one another, and therefore radiate at least as much energy as they absorb.

    For a “non thermal” source, the thermodynamics aren’t changed, you are still radiating the energy you put into it, and a sufficiently “hot” absorber will be unable to use the energy. The thermodynamics are the same, you just have more control over the frequency and direction of the radiation.