Comment by abalone

Comment by abalone 10 months ago

30 replies

According to the LA Times these devices are “not usually used by fighters, but by ambulance and civil defense crews and administrators affiliated with Hezbollah. The devices are unrestricted and can be sold to anyone, and as such are used by other organizations in areas of poor signal.” [1]

There is no question if an enemy set off hundreds of bombs in American ambulances we would recognize it as a mass terrorist attack.

[1] https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2024-09-18/second...

Terr_ 10 months ago

Hold up, that skips over the crucial issue of triggering-logic.

It's reasonable to guess that these devices were made to only explode after a very unique code is is received, and/or only when traffic came over a radio channel known to be used by Hezbollah.

In contrast, an uninvolved civilian medical doctor buying a booby-trapped pager secondhand shouldn't be at significant risk, since before carrying the pager around all day they'll first configure it to use their hospital's radio network, which should only be broadcasting innocuous hospital messages.

> There is no question if an enemy set off hundreds of bombs in American ambulances we would recognize it as a mass terrorist attack.

However if those bombs were only triggered by the code "Immediate Mobilization" broadcast over a CIA/DIA pager network, then the real question would become why so many ambulance staff were holding down a second secret job as spies and soldiers.

  • aziaziazi 10 months ago

    > uninvolved civilian medical doctor buying a booby-trapped pager secondhand shouldn't be at significant risk

    Pretty sure any doctor (or anyone else) owning one of those pager wouldn’t want to keep it, even if configured safely. Would you carry an hand grenade in your backpack all day long, as safe as it it because the pin is still in?

    > why so many ambulance staff were holding down a second secret job as spies and soldiers

    Hezbollah is a legal and popular party in Lebanon and is at war with another country, of course the medic staff is involved what’s else would you expect ? However "all parties must refrain from attacking and misusing medical facilities, transport, and personnel", what happens here is a crime for the Geneva convention.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_neutrality

    • oldandboring 10 months ago

      > Hezbollah is a legal and popular party in Lebanon

      Hezbollah is an Iran-backed militia whose sole purpose is the destruction of Israel.

      > and is at war with another country

      No, they're not. They're a militia.

      Here is a timeline of major Hezbollah terrorist activities. Left out, of course, is the constant barrage of missiles rained down on northern Israel by Hezbollah. I copy-pasta'd this from another source for convenience:

      1983: Hezbollah sends suicide truck bomb against US embassy and murders 63 people

      Also 1983: Hezbollah murders 241 American soldiers and 58 French soldiers with another suicide truck bomb

      1984: Hezbollah murders 18 American soldiers with bombing in Spain

      Also 1984: Hezbollah murders 11 people with another truck bomb against US embassy

      1992: Hezbollah murders 29 people with suicide bombing of Israeli Embassy in Argentina

      1994: Hezbollah murders 85 Jewish Argentinian civilians in another suicide truck bomb

      1996: Hezbollah murders 19 American Air Force personnel with bombing of Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia

      2005: Hezbollah murders 22 civilians in assassination on Lebanese PM

      2011 to present: Helped Assad murder up to half a million Syrian civilians, carrying out starvation sieges and ethnic cleansing against Sunni towns and cities

      • cholantesh 10 months ago

        >Hezbollah is an Iran-backed militia whose sole purpose is the destruction of Israel.

        This is the official position of Israel, yes, but the international community, including the US acknowledges that they are a political entity as well. You actually don't need to be on side with their positions to accept this fact.

        • davu8 10 months ago

          international community acknowledges that they are a terrorist organization

      • [removed] 10 months ago
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  • lfxyz 10 months ago

    > It's reasonable to guess that these devices were made to only explode after a very unique code is is received, and/or only when traffic came over a radio channel known to be used by Hezbollah.

    Why is this a reasonable thing to guess?

    • Terr_ 10 months ago

      Nobody that goes through all that effort of making secret customized electronics and then sneaking them into usage by your foes wants the plan to be ruined because one went off in an uncontrolled/unexpected way, blatantly alerting all the other targets to toss their pagers into a shallow hole.

      Even if the engineering makes it's a choice of "all blow up" or "none blow up", they'll also want to have control when that moment happens to be, either to pre-empt discovery and defusal or to coincide with other events and factors.

      • ithkuil 10 months ago

        I agree.

        I'm often confused about the incoherent picture that paints Israel as having blatant disregard for civilian casualties while at the same time devises complicated and risky strategies to perform targeted strikes.

        • snapplebobapple 10 months ago

          You don't need to be confused, you can just talk to the person about something else for a bit to determine they aren't an imbecile, then verify their view is actually incoherent by talking to them about it, then write them off as part of the growing group of people that are choosing a fantasy they want to be true rather than the verifiable actual truth in front of them. it's pretty easy to suss out the situation by determining which of the 3 I's you are experiencing (imbecile, irrational, or I duffed it and had my mind changed by talking to them).

  • 28304283409234 10 months ago

    > In contrast, an uninvolved civilian medical doctor buying a booby-trapped pager secondhand shouldn't be at significant risk,

    The end result is still that innocents are walking around with a bomb planted in their pocket.

    • dlubarov 10 months ago

      Wars often result in innocent farmers having mines in their fields (at least temporarily). How is this worse?

      • yellowapple 10 months ago

        Farmers having to worry about mines in their fields is also something that I would consider to be a bad thing.

  • [removed] 10 months ago
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  • creer 10 months ago

    > made to only explode after a very unique code is is received, and/or only when traffic came over a radio channel known to be used by Hezbollah.

    The latest round is handheld radios, not even cellphones or even pagers. You are trying to stretch justification far beyond the breaking point.

pdabbadabba 10 months ago

I agree that if it is confirmed that these are primarily used by civilian ambulance crews, that would make a big difference. Of course, this isn't what the LA Times actually reported, but I'm not sure what "civil defense crews and administrators affiliated with Hezbollah" actually means on the ground.

  • jrflowers 10 months ago

    > Of course, this isn't what the LA Times actually reported

    This is a good point. The LA Times does not report incidents involving ambulances other than in the first half of the sentence that you quoted:

    >They are not usually used by fighters, but by ambulance and civil defense crews and administrators affiliated with Hezbollah.

    And the report of a video of an ambulance exploding

    > Video from a funeral ceremony in the country’s south depicted an explosion inside an ambulance, leading bystanders to run away in panic.

    • stogot 10 months ago

      So someone extrapolated one video to making an “usually” argument? Without a source or data this is poor journalism

      • [removed] 10 months ago
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RickJWagner 10 months ago

LA Times notably does not report that Hezbollah has been recognized as a terrorist organization for many years by the US government. That fact alone makes their reporting suspect, IMHO.