Comment by yosito
Comment by yosito 2 days ago
I have a feeling that the people who would trust a product like Lumina are probably the same people who will never use flouride.
Comment by yosito 2 days ago
I have a feeling that the people who would trust a product like Lumina are probably the same people who will never use flouride.
Since you bring up fluoride—does anyone know the state of the literature on the effectiveness of fluoride treatments? I’ve been getting them for years. But with the recent trends towards PE owned dental practices and efforts to juice their profitability, I’m more and more skeptical of anything my dentist tries to sell me on.
I learned about Novamin a few years ago [0], and ordered BioMin Restore [1] to give it a try. I'm now a devoted customer. There are other Novamin/hydroxyapatite toothpastes, but I only have experience with this one brand.
I think this company's latest news is the version of their toothpaste that has fluoride [2] is now FDA-approved for sensitive teeth, so they're going to be able to sell it in the United States specifically labeled to help with sensitive teeth. If you live in Canada or the UK [3], it looks like you can order this now.
Just noticed a blog post on the UK site: Why you shouldn’t over-prescribe fluoride to your patients - https://biomin.co.uk/news/article/why-you-shouldnt-over-pres...
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26669660
[1] https://drcollins.com/collections/toothpaste/products/biomin...
[2] https://biomintoothpaste.com/
[3] https://www.biomin-toothpaste.com/products/biomin-f-75-ml / https://biomin.co.uk/
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06XK6XJBP?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_...
Bought just this past Sunday and delivered this morning, had zero issues finding and ordering it :)
Nature relayed one from the British Dental Journal (2023) on the acid protection granted by BioMin F. (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41415-024-7876-8)
Here's another from 2022 that compares Colgate fluoride toothpaste against BioMin F(https://shorturl.at/M4hiQ).
My HN comment, linked to as [0], was on a submission about the history of NovaMin - iirc it was originally used for soldiers in Vietnam, then came to be used for repair of teeth.
You can do your own experiment: $10 for a tube, plus $6 shipping. If you have sensitive teeth it’s worth a trial.
You can get high fluoride tooth paste (i.e. ~2% fluoride vs the 0.25% found in normal toothpaste) just by asking from most dentists. Costs about the same per bottle too.
Been doing this for years and have nearly perfect teeth due to it, flossing, and non alcohol based anti-gingivitis/anti-plaque mouth washing.
Also, people who think fluoride is bad for you or think it's not effective for teeth are exactly the kind of people I'm terrified of paying in the context of developing software. I really wish people would wear their love of homeopathy, and other psudo-scientific bullshit more clearly so they can be more easily avoided.
There's a big difference between applying a high concentration of fluoride to teeth where it's needed and then spitting the excess out vs swallowing a low concentration of flouride in drinking water and having most of it go where it isn't needed.
The issue is people (rightly imo) oppose the latter and throw the baby out with the bathwater
I also get the treatment because why risk your teeth and health at the cost of basically $50? But am still curious to know more about its efficacy.
I socialize with a lot of international entrepreneurs who go to places like Prospera where Lumina was started. In those circles, it's not at all uncommon for people to see fluoride as an evil thing. I've even seen women in their dating profiles advertising that they won't date a man unless he's "unfluoridated".
I'm strongly considering it, although I can't get it where I live yet. I've never had a cavity, but I spend a lot of time doing endurance sports and very high carbohydrate intake has become the latest performance enhancer. As a result I'm often drinking a couple hundred grams of plain table sugar per week and I'd like to keep my streak of good teeth health.
If I can do that for $250 I don't see why not. They're pretty clear it's not a replacement for brushing. I think of it as preventative care (assuming it is actually safe of course).
Read the article. If you have not already, you might rethink consideration of this product.
Th article just confirms my suspicion that the worst thing is I could be out $500
or, you could be infecting your mouth with a stubborn bacteria that will be difficult if not impossible to eradicate, that has the capacity to laterally acquire pathogenic genes, or through the toxin it produces, suppress other microbes which are actively beneficial. For the low cost of $500, you could end up with a lifetime of medical issues.
My own dentist (William Drillfill, DDS) was telling me just a few weeks ago that it could be alot worse. The mid-sized boat building industry sector could take a big hit and tank the entire economy. Have some sympathy for the boat builders, how many more layoffs can our country take right now?
How is that your takeaway?
Either you didn’t read the article, or you’re blatantly ignoring that we don’t understand the long term implications of having this bacteria in your mouth and gut microbiome.
There may be no problems at all… but we don’t know. This is why FDA regulations exist. The product being sold in Prospera to skirt regulations should be a red flag anyway.
I’m not saying that it can’t or won’t work. I’m saying, be careful. If you can prevent cavities by brushing with fluoridated toothpaste and flossing, why would you adopt a potential risk that could affect your health?
The article provides some reasons to think that the treatment might not be fully effective even conditional on the mechanism of action working as described, not that it won't do anything at all.
The article provides some sound reasons for why
1. infecting yourself with this bacteria may not do what it is marketed to do
2. may result in suppression of beneficial microbiota
3. is not safe against lateral acquisition of a gene that is beneficial to the microbe but pathogenic to the human host
4. there is no real kill switch
for a lot of money, you might just end up buying a lot of health issues.
I don’t think that’s the case at all - it’s a common concern in endurance sports, you really do have huge quantities of sugar.
I hope one day that the dudes eating sugar and the dudes using fluoride get into a room together, and discuss how long and often said substances are in contact with dental enamel, and at what concentrations, and then either they convert to homeopathy, or find something better to do with their HSAs.
Well, you can trivially falsify this feeling by going and asking some early adopters whether they brush their teeth with fluoridated toothpaste. (Spoiler: they do.)