Comment by aussieguy1234

Comment by aussieguy1234 3 days ago

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Honestly, at this point, I see absolutely zero difference, from a moral perspective, between the Israeli government and their enemies.

Both are as bad as each other and have been implicated in many war crimes and human rights abuses, however Israel has more firepower and can inflict much more damage (E.g. demolish an entire apartment block, killing hundreds of innocent people from the air).

The last thing any country should consider doing is arming or funding either side, that will be like throwing fuel on a fire. Taking sides in what is essentially a regional ethnic conflict between extremists on both sides is not a good idea.

Again, not condoning or justifying the actions of either side or taking any sides here - they are both as bad as each other.

raxxorraxor 3 days ago

I do and the latest war completely reaffirmed my perspective. The little spot that allegedly tries to genocide everyone around them while their enemies have that as the stated goals in their respective charters. It is the reason for the existence of Hezbollah even. Why not believe them?

The positions aren't equal, in fact they are worlds apart and Israel treats enemy civilians better than the terror regimes they do live under despite facing constant wars of aggression by said nations.

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  • hajile 2 days ago

    If someone broke into your house, took over most of it and killed your family member while the police said it was perfectly fine, how would you respond? Just live and let live? Probably not.

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    • raxxorraxor 2 days ago

      We can argue who killed more or was more justified to do it, but that isn't progress. The latest issue is the attack on Israel. There is no equivalence and no justification for that.

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      • hajile 2 days ago

        The latest issue is an attack on Israel? Are you referring to Oct 7?

        Oct 7 had a 71-72% civilian casualty. Project Lavender considered a 90-100% civilian casualty rate to be acceptable and the number of civilians killed vs number of Hama killed far exceeds the ratio on Oct 7.

        Israel has systematically destroyed Gaza building by building ruining the lives of millions of people. That is the latest and continuing issue. Ethnic cleansing is a crime against humanity.

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aussieguy1234 a day ago

Long term solution here is a two state solution and implementing the protocols Isreal agreed to ~10 years ago. Unfortunately successive Israeli governments have completely ignored it and the current one has declared they wont be abiding by what has been agreed to.

If these things didn't happen, there could have been lasting peace by now. But I expect to see more carnage from both sides for the next 5-10 years at least, until moderate voices on both sides take over and some new agreement can be not only reached, but actually implemented.

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fsckboy 3 days ago

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  • jmyeet 3 days ago

    This is objectively false.

    Israel is objectively an apartheid state [1][2], no different to apartheid South Africa. South Africa was also a "democracy" (for white people). You cannot be both a democracy and an apartheid state, by definition.

    There are ~2M Palestinians in Gaza and ~3M in the West Bank, both areas that Israel lays claim to and are within its borders. These 5M people do not have the rights of the Jewish citizens of Israel. Even for the few who are Israeli Arabs, they don't have the same rights as Jewish Israeli citizens (eg [3]). Most settlements prohibit Israeli Arabs from living their under 2018 segregation laws [4].

    Anyone with a passing knowledge of American history will immediately recognize Israel for what it is. Jim Crowe laws, sundown towns and so on.

    And this segregation permeates every aspect of daily life. Checkpoints, residency permit segregation, Palestinians falling under military rather than civil jurisdiction, many Palestinians being held indefinitely without charge, water restrictions, building roads to divide up the West Bank and separate Palestinian communities, destroying Palestinian food sources, randomly bulldozing Palestinian homes, never premitting construction, settler terrorism, honestly the list goes on and on.

    And in 11 months, ~75,000 tons of munitions have been dropped on an open air prison, also one of the most densely packed and most populous refugee camps in the world.

    Democracy? I think not.

    [1]: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-...

    [2]: https://www.vox.com/23924319/israel-palestine-apartheid-mean...

    [3]: https://www.hrw.org/news/2011/03/30/israel-new-laws-marginal...

    [4]: https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-n...

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  • aussieguy1234 3 days ago

    Their current government is basically run by extremists, with government ministers openly calling for a second Nakba https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231009-israel-mk-calls-f....

    Calling for a second Nakba, in my opinion, is no different to the chants of "death to isreal" coming from the other side.

    I would say they are about as democratic as the former south african apartheid government. Democratic yes, but only one group of people gets to vote.

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  • dannyfreeman 3 days ago

    [flagged]

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    • fsckboy 3 days ago

      I was equating terrorism and and virulent anti-semitism and violent suppression of women's rights, gay rights, free speech, and democracy with barbarism. Israeli Arabs are happy to live in Israel. If you have a better word, I'd be happy to use it. Barbarity?

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RickJWagner 3 days ago

I see a clear difference. One side still holds hostages, the other does not. One side perpetrated murder, rape and kidnapping, the other did not. Etc.

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