Comment by aurareturn

Comment by aurareturn 3 days ago

18 replies

It’s great that it works in your case.

But one thing HN community does not mention enough is when executives make these policies, they are looking at overall productivity and not individuals.

Also, HN posts may have selection bias. Perhaps people who perform better in office do not want to admit it. Perhaps people who work in the office don’t have time or the opportunity to post on HN as often.

Many HN posters still spout conspiracy theories like real estate investments by executives as the reason why RoT is enacted. When in reality, it’s highly likely that the executives see overall productivity being down and that HN posters do not represent the majority.

johnnyanmac 3 days ago

HN is not the majority. But we've seen many studies that say tech WFH has either no/minimal efficiency loss, or even has better productivity. Most tech companies in fact made record revenue (maybe profits, but hard to say) over COVID, so the business logistsics do not imply a loss in production.

>Many HN posters still spout conspiracy theories like real estate investments by executives as the reason why RoT is enacted.

I mean, there's many reasons an otherwise unwarranted RTO happens. Maybe there's executive conspiracies, but the simplest two reasons are

1. We're still in layoff mode and RTO is a soft layoff without paying out severance. Especially to people that are physically unable to move back

2. managers and executives are in fact not rational actors. They can make decisions based on vibes, or because they need to make some shakeup (any shakeup), or because some other executive made a decision and they are mimicking. I would not take their decisions as gospel. Otherwise they would have shown some shred of evidence of productivity loss (which they cannot, because again: many tech companies have record revenues).

  • aurareturn 3 days ago

    It could be. I sense that it's simply because the overall productivity/creativity is down but HN posters are disproportionately pro-WFH. This creates an echo chamber where people here are constantly confused why RoT is a thing.

    • davidcbc 3 days ago

      If that was the case these execs would be sharing the data so it was harder to argue against. They will share any data that backs up their decision and when they don't share any data you can know it's because they don't have any that supports them (or doesn't support their public position. The data probably shows that people voluntarily leave because of RTO mandates, but that's not their public argument) but they've decided to do something anyway.

      • aurareturn 3 days ago

        They're not going to share that data because it's confidential. Imagine Amazon sharing data that their employees are less productive... their stock price would tank and they'd garner a ton of bad PR.

chgs 3 days ago

Is anyone preventing those people working in the office?

  • aurareturn 3 days ago

    You often hear about HN posters complaining that when they do go into the office, they’re just having Zoom calls in the office instead. That’s what Amazon is trying to fix here. Everyone in office 5 days a week.

    • objclxt 3 days ago

      > when they do go into the office, they’re just having Zoom calls in the office instead. That’s what Amazon is trying to fix here.

      Not really. At a company the size of Amazon teams are often in other buildings, if not other cities or countries entirely. The zoom calls continue unabated.

      • aurareturn 3 days ago

        I think they're talking about their own team. Cross country or cross team meetings might always require Zoom.

        If you have 3 days of office, you'll always be in Zoom calls because at least some of the team members will be at home.

        • camdenreslink 3 days ago

          I'm not sure about Amazon, but in some of these large companies the team is still distributed even when they are "in-office". So everybody is still on zoom calls.

wubrr 3 days ago

> But one thing HN community does not mention enough is when executives make these policies, they are looking at overall productivity and not individuals.

Most likely Amazon has zero data supporting the argument that WFH is less productive and probably has data to the opposite. They went from 'we're super data-based, data-oriented and objective' (which was a joke to begin with) to the complete opposite on this topic.

> When in reality, it’s highly likely that the executives see overall productivity being down and that HN posters do not represent the majority.

The reality is you have no idea what you're talking about, you have no data to back up your claims, you just can't resist licking the boot.

  • aurareturn 3 days ago

    And you do? You’re a lot smarter than Amazon execs it seems. /s

    • wubrr 3 days ago

      I have some insight based on working at Amazon and being part of RTO/WFH-related discussions.

      That being said, you shouldn't confuse your personal hallucinations as the opinions of Amazon execs.

      • aurareturn 2 days ago

        You're not working hard enough. That's why they want you back in office for 5 days/week. Should stay off HN and get back to work. :)

        • wubrr 2 days ago

          I don't work there anymore, but when they introduced 3 days/week RTO I just said 'Nope, fire me if you want. Also, I want a 15% raise'. I got the raise and continued working fully remote until I got a better offer. It's amazing what you can get when you have self-respect you're not focused on deepthroating the boot all day long :)

          Now, I think you might want to take your own advice :)