Comment by doctoboggan

Comment by doctoboggan 9 hours ago

21 replies

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> I don't see an obvious way for Waymo to get enshittified.

Oh ye of little faith! Here are some ideas off the top of my head, I am sure the suits at Google already have a bigger list.

  * Ads in vehicle 
  * Adjust route so you see partner companies or billboards
  * Offering alternative destinations (I see you are going to Burger King, would you rather go to our partner McDonalds?)
  * Listening to conversations in car
  * Selling ride data.
everforward 9 hours ago

The ads will be awful, because you’re effectively captive. You only control the volume and screen if they let you.

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crazygringo 8 hours ago

Ads in vehicles are a sure thing. Also a sure thing you'll be able to pay a little extra to turn them off, which is basically just the full price of the trip unsubsidized by ads.

It'll be up to you, just like whether you want your Netflix cheaper with ads, or more expensive but without.

I see that choice as a good thing.

The rest of your suggestions are incredibly unlikely. Google doesn't even scan your Gmail anymore, you think they're going to create a privacy scandal by listening to your conversations? And they certainly don't sell your Maps timeline which is far more valuable than just a few car trips, so why on earth would they do that with Waymo? Nor does Google Maps offer to send you to Burger King when you hit directions for McDonald's. And taking a longer route that wastes time, battery and money, on the chance you'll be looking out the window to see a billboard rather than looking at your phone, doesn't make sense at all.

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jezzamon 9 hours ago

There's all that, but you can just look at Uber for the classic model of how a company like this enshittifies, which is:

- offer a service well below market rate, gain dependent customers

- crank up the price

No need to do much of the other stuff

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  • sib 4 hours ago

    Don't forget:

    * Stop doing any meaningful in-person inspection of the vehicle to ensure that it is in good condition before joining the network

    * Stop requiring cars to be <= 4 years old

    * (Seemingly) stop requiring drivers to maintain trunk space free for passengers' luggage

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dotBen 9 hours ago

They already will be selling your ride data and there is no way they could monitor conversations in the car for commercial purposes (at least in Western countries).

Ads in cars, partnerships with alternative destinations, etc. definitely would feel like enshitification for a demographic comparable to the hacker news one here. But these are all per session/user settings just like most of us have a paid Spotify account and never see advertising and those who don't get a very different monetized experience.

What is exciting about monetization like this is the possibility for rides to become very cheap or even free. If my dentist offers free rides to the office in return for my loyalty, I'm quite happy to take that.

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  • crazygringo 9 hours ago

    > If my dentist offers free rides to the office in return for my loyalty, I'm quite happy to take that.

    That's actually a really interesting angle. The same way businesses often provide free parking now... what if they start providing free self-driving round trips?

    E.g. spend $75 or more at Whole Foods, and get free round-trip up to 20 miles or something. Especially for bulky items like groceries where a car makes a big difference, I can totally see that becoming standard. Home Depot too. Plus entertainment like amusement parks, movie theaters, spas...

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    • dotBen 8 hours ago

      It makes particular sense for vertically integrated conglomerates like Amazon-Whole Foods which owns Zoox.

      I buy Whole Foods French fries shipped to the store via Amazon logistics and purchase those at Amazon owned Whole Foods, at a discount via my Prime membership on my Amazon credit card which is processed on AWS infrastructure and I ride home on an Amazon owned Zoox that also runs on AWS infrastructure.

      Amazon owns so much of the profit margin across that stack that they can afford to give rides away for example.

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  • jafo1989 7 hours ago

    > there is no way they could monitor conversations in the car for commercial purposes (at least in Western countries)

    Oh, you'll agree to that when you accept the terms of service.

    Can't wait for the "This ride with ads: $17. Ad free: $26" choice.

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  • GuinansEyebrows 9 hours ago

    > there is no way they could monitor conversations in the car for commercial purposes (at least in Western countries)

    people used to feel that way about search queries, email (gmail) and IP laws (LLM training).

    > What is exciting about monetization like this is the possibility for rides to become very cheap or even free. If my dentist offers free rides to the office in return for my loyalty, I'm quite happy to take that.

    this won't happen. alphabet will collect on both ends.

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  • tapoxi 9 hours ago

    Couldn't Uber do that today?

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    • dotBen 9 hours ago

      /cries into my Uber shares and the deletion of the Uber ATG repos when the parts were sold to Aurora.

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  • lotsofpulp 9 hours ago

    > and there is no way they could monitor conversations in the car for commercial purposes (at least in Western countries).

    Why not? You can consent to having your audio recorded. They can even offer a higher “private” price and a lower “ad supported” price. I write “private” because I assume the microphones will always be listening no matter which price you pay.

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    • dotBen 9 hours ago

      I guess that's semantics. If you opt in then yes I guess they could do anything. I think the point was that enshitification would occur if they forced you to do that.

      You could opt in to have blood or plasma taken on every ride if you so wanted I guess.

      Reply View 1 reply
      • tantalor 7 hours ago

        Rough figures:

        As a plasma donor you can earn $30-$70 per session for 800 ml. Let's call it $50. A session takes about 90 minutes, or 533 ml/hour, and you make $33/hour

        Waymo charges $0.50 - $1.00 per mile. Let's use the high end.

        To break even, your Waymo will need to consume < $33/hour, or < 33 mph. That's not bad!

        If you go any faster, you won't be able to extract enough plasma in the same amount of time.

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  • notyourwork 9 hours ago

    You really think ads in vehicle are not coming? You’re being naive if you think that.

    Also, cheap rides cut into stocks margins. That won’t fly by investors either. These companies are not charities. They are in the business of maximizing profits. We lost “don’t be evil” over a decade ago.

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    • tantalor 9 hours ago

      We already have ads in vehicles.

      If you fly United, the in-flight entertainment has pre-roll ads.

      I can't say how well that model translates to car rides.

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      • oefrha 9 hours ago

        I see you haven’t seen or heard of cabs’ in-car ad screens we’ve had for close to two decades, if you have to point to airplanes as an example.

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        • tantalor 7 hours ago

          I haven't been in a cab in 2 decades, so that tracks.

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