Mobile carriers can get your GPS location
(an.dywa.ng)572 points by cbeuw 14 hours ago
572 points by cbeuw 14 hours ago
Cell tower triangulation does not provide the same precision as GPS.
What makes you think cell tower triangulation is the only data point being exploited to minimize position error?
I've wondered if they can also find you by what wifi or Bluetooth devices are around. Odds are one or more humans nearby has their GPS on. Your device can snitch on what's around or those other devices snitch on you.
And at the end of the day if the location is a hundred meters off... it might still not matter because it's how you frame it with other evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.
Even the article mentions this.
> I have served on a jury where the prosecution obtained location data from cell towers. Since cell towers are sparse (especially before 5G), the accuracy is in the range of tens to hundreds of metres.
I've also personally witnessed murder cases locally where GPS location put a suspect to "100 meters away". The rest of the evidence still pushed the case forward to a guilty verdict, and the phone evidence was still pretty damning.
> And at the end of the day if the location is a hundred meters off... it might still not matter because it's how you frame it with other evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.
For example, if you drop a pin a hundred metres off from the incident, then when you're maybe several hundred metres off the column of smoke is probably a better indicator of locus than the wee dot on your screen.
Classic "government is evil" (but only western ones) (mentions Israel ofc) Good one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_resource_location_servic...
>Since cell towers are sparse (especially before 5G), the accuracy is in the range of tens to hundreds of metres
It was 5 meters back in 2006 in urban areas.
Even if you have an Apple in-house modem, seems it can only be disabled with select carriers:
> Germany: Telekom > United Kingdom: EE, BT > United States: Boost Mobile > Thailand: AIS, True
So turning this "off" on other carriers results in GPS data still shipped off?
Phones haven't always had GPS information and they could still be tracked, if you connect to enough towers they can triangulate your location. Cell towers have been able to do this based on your signal strength for a very long time and you cant turn it off. You don't even have to have a SIM card, if the cell radio is on it pings towers period, this is why a phone even without service can dial 911 and it will work. The IMEI of your phone is unique and cell towers can track it, the government has used this and there is no way to disable it. Its not as accurate as GPS but it can be good enough to figure out a route you take and general location
https://www.rfwireless-world.com/terminology/cellular-tower-...
How is this news?
Why wouldn't carriers be able to ask your phone about what it thinks its location is?
No, please read the article. No one is saying carriers cant triangulate but carriers shouldn't be able to query the gps on my device and get precise GNSS data.
> Apple made a good step in iOS 26.3 to limit at least one vector of mass surveillance, enabled by having full control of the modem silicon and firmware. They must now allow users to disable GNSS location responses to mobile carriers, and notify the user when such attempts are made to their device.
I did read the article fine, thanks for asking.
The crux of the argument seems to come from this
> It’s worth noting that GNSS location is never meant to leave your device. GNSS coordinates are calculated entirely passively.
OK so? The fact that GPS is calculated passively means nothing about the phone being asked what its position is after the fact.
The article admits this capability is no secret
> These capabilities are not secrets but somehow they have mostly slid under the radar of the public consciousness.
If the article just wants to say phones should block that ability, fine. But don't pretend this is some shady BS.
> slid under the radar of the public consciousness.
It is shady BS, and it’s why this phrase appeared in the article. Just because industry insiders are aware doesn’t mean it’s not shady.
The same applies to modern cars reporting their information back to manufacturers.
Please reread OPs comment
They never said "triangulate" but read phone for information. Your inner monologue swapped what was written with an already understood technical method.
And just because access to GPS has never been confirmed publicly before does not mean they previously only relied on tower triangulation.
Worked for Sprints network team before they bought Nextel. We had access to eeeeverything.
The can ask but your phone maybe doesn’t have to tell them by default / you can opt out
Why would they? It's basic privacy no? Just because I want to pay money to carrier to provide me with data and phone service, I shouldn't have to give up my location from my device. I expect them to know my approximate location from cell tower data.
Generally I'd not expect them actively triangulate my exact location, but I'd realise that's at least possible - but GPS data, wake my phone up, switch on the GPS radio, drain it's battery, send that data back... no. That wouldn't be legal where I live either, let alone expected.
It .. probably does turn the GPS on?
While this is an important question, I don't see the sources mentioning it, what the standards mandate, and how the phones behave.
For example the wiki article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_resource_location_servic... describes the protocol as using the GPS and not as getting the location info from Android.
There's a difference in precision between cell tower triangulation and GPS. From 10-100 meters down to 1.
The cell network does not need to know where you are down to the meter and phones have no business giving this information up.
Do they really need it? They can likely triangulate you without GPS regardless.