Comment by usrusr

Comment by usrusr a day ago

25 replies

Pretty much what has long been my dream "make the world better" product (long as in from pre-genAI days), only that this one happens in image space: take an architectural model, look at the surface material specifications, analyze it for where rainwater would run down etc and generate weathering texture, how would this look when it's not new anymore.

Because as I see it, a lot of aesthetic decisions in architecture, pretty much anything that goes in the direction of minimalism, is just putting "newness" in the center of perception. And thus absence of "newness" will be in the center of perception when it stops being new. All these clear geometric shapes? They look awesome at the opening ceremony, but two years down the line they are like magnifying glasses for uneven changes in color and the like. Whereas for a more playful surface full of ornaments, those same years would be hardly more than a blink and they can age gracefully, on the aesthetic level (and on the technical level, required maintenance intervals are much longer anyways). Architects who claim to care for sustainability should demonstrate that they consider how the building will look like later in life.

larusso a day ago

I see this as well with huge modern buildings with wood parts. They look great the first year. The wood shines red’ish. After a winter the wood part starts to grey out. I understand that this is sometimes a look they strife for but all the preview renders show it in the prestige condition. Nobody is doing a yearly training. And don’t get me started on all the glass survives for elevators, roofs, bus stops, divider panels next to tram stops (I’m mainly meaning Berlin here) which nobody cares to clean or is so difficult to clean that after 2 or 3 years it looks very run down.

  • Joel_Mckay a day ago

    Some see a patina with weathered surfaces as desirable.

    The beauty of Kintsugi can also be difficult for people to understand. =3

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9LMKGte0UU

    • larusso a day ago

      The Statue of Liberty would be red without her patina and would look weird ;). I’m not talking about the beauty of weathering. I think a dirty glass roof which no longer lets any light through a planned weathering tactic. The point was that the plans architects make are always showing the building in prestine condition. And they never reflect how this building will look like in a few years. One example I see every day is a Train-station entrance. It has a very dramatic metal ark that stretches up. Looked great in the past. Now you see dirty water running down the surface. The brushed metal is stained with grime that pilled up. Every time it rains the grime runs a bit deeper. They tried to clean it a few month back. They have to come with a special crane and water jets to remove the grime. But nobody takes the time to polish the surface back up. Is this bad? No of course not. But don’t plan and sell something that will only last for half a year. That’s why I also think this post is brilliant.

      • Joel_Mckay a day ago

        The Art Deco architecture of New York city is often lost on many visitors.

        Lady liberty is showing her age, but only requires a few people still care. She was always beautiful. =3

        • larusso a day ago

          I love NY. Not only for the art decor but als the human weathering ;) I meant that Lady Liberty would look weird because she is known to be green. I know that the early advertisements showed her red as well. Also when the torch was shown in NY to fundraise the pedestal.

    • Moosdijk a day ago

      Bringing kintsugi into this conversation is like saying “being underwater can be quite advantageous!” and linking a video on fish, when the main topic is about people drowning in the ocean.

      • Joel_Mckay a day ago

        Art is everywhere, and starts with a simple philosophy of making things slightly less awful everyday. Initially focused on your own mind, body, and soul... then recognizing you were always part of something a lot bigger and older than most imagine.

        I do appreciate your poetic tone though =3

    • IgorPartola a day ago

      Patina and rot are very different things.

      • usrusr a day ago

        Not necessarily. On a design that requires being new to look good, all weathering will be perceived as rot, never as patina.

        The point is that some approaches to architectural beauty make it more or less impossible that any amount of weathering could ever be perceived as patina, while others look good both new and old.

amelius a day ago

That's maybe nice for prestige projects but imho the main problem in architecture is projects on a budget and how money is allocated. There should be a law that says that X% of the building costs should be in the facade, the part that everybody sees. That alone should help a lot in making cities look nicer.

  • Aurornis a day ago

    > There should be a law that says that X% of the building costs should be in the facade

    Cities solve this with design requirements and through the approval process. Specifying a minimum spend isn’t going to make the buildings look nice by itself. You’d just get weird budget games being played.

    Cities with restrictive planning commissions can push buildings toward certain looks. People get angry about it, though, because it gets harder and more expensive to build things in an era where it’s already too expensive to build.

    • amelius a day ago

      > Cities solve this with design requirements and through the approval process.

      Yes I didn't say they have to get rid of existing procedures.

  • dahart a day ago

    That sounds like a recipe for skimping on safety and design systemically. No thank you. You can’t legislate aesthetics, and there’s already a huge incentive to make buildings look great. People already spend a lopsided amount on the facade making it look better than it is, rather than spending on where they should: foundation, structure, good design, and longevity. In my city, apartment buildings used to require steel structures and lawmakers relaxed the requirement so they went back to wood because it’s cheaper. Now the new ones look great but they’re burning down and falling apart at higher rates than before.

    • sbarre a day ago

      > In my city, apartment buildings used to require steel structures and lawmakers relaxed the requirement so they went back to wood because it’s cheaper. Now the new ones look great but they’re burning down and falling apart at higher rates than before.

      Are you in Denver?

      • dahart 18 hours ago

        Nope, but I’m not surprised if this is widespread… :(

ReptileMan a day ago

Most of the mega projects are in authoritarian states. So in a way it is about the photo op at opening. And then the next mega project.

fnord77 a day ago

this is what gets me about brutalism. Concrete looks nice when brand new, but a few years of acid rain makes it look like dog shit

  • usrusr a day ago

    Some of my favorite examples of graceful aging in architecture are concrete - but those are never the ones that celebrate efficiency, they always have some playful element that will still be playful when the newness has faded. Ribbed concrete (if you don't know what that means: worth googling!) alternating with smooth surface for example. But sure, once the structure reaches a certain size threshold, you better play the "glass & steel" card a lot, it has been dominant for almost a century for a reason. But even that can be overdone and concrete exposing aging can be a nice contrast.

  • Analemma_ a day ago

    You can do regular maintenance on concrete to keep it looking nice, but nobody wants to spend the money. Everyone understands that a wooden house exterior has to be repainted now and then, but thinks "concrete = no upkeep costs". Architects have complained bitterly about this for a while; I don't love brutalism but I can sort of see their point.