Comment by andersa
Comment by andersa 2 days ago
This will happen automatically once an EU native cloud exists with comparable pricing. Get on it. No one will pay 10x to store data in Europe.
Comment by andersa 2 days ago
This will happen automatically once an EU native cloud exists with comparable pricing. Get on it. No one will pay 10x to store data in Europe.
But those do exist and they are generally a lot cheaper; not more expensive.
BTW. it's all hosted in the EU if you use it in the EU. Amazon, Google and Azure have data centers all over Europe and using those is not optional for EU based companies. If that wasn't the case, they'd have no business here. Companies legally have to host in the EU and do business with US cloud providers through EU based subsidiaries (mostly based in Ireland. There's a bit of a murky situation with what level of access US intelligence agencies have exactly to all the data or who copies what where and when. But generally, data isn't supposed to leave the continent unless that's needed/required.
I work in Germany. We currently use Google Cloud. It's cheap and convenient enough. Our spend is only 300 euros/month or so. I could replace it. One of our customers insisted on Telekom Cloud; so we support that as well. I've used Hetzner in the past. There are a few other providers. It's not that big of a deal. But it's not a big/urgent issue for us.
However, Vms, object storage, elastic load balancers, managed databases, etc. are all commodities at this point. You don't need to pay AWS 2-3x for that. They aren't magically any better. They certainly aren't any faster. AWS squeezes hard on those VCPUs.
And there's a lot of exotic stuff that some people use. AWS is offering lots of that. But most of those things are a combination of a bit niche and very pricey and more aimed at enterprises than startups. When it comes to GPU hosting, AI stuff, etc. the premium options that Amazon offers really add up really quickly. I'm sure it's fantastic. But many people I talk to in Europe use alternative/cheaper solutions.
For bread and butter hosting, AWS is just expensive and overrated. Big companies don't seem to care much and are sensitive to big brands and the warm fuzzy feeling they get from expensive consultants telling them what to do. And AWS is very good at vendor lock-in. That's also why IBM still exists and why companies like Oracle still do a brisk business separating rich clueless enterprises from their cash. Vendor lock-in is all they have left at this point. But those are at this point the idiot option. AWS is increasingly like that. The times are gone that they are a sane solution for startups. Ten years ago they'd lure you in with "free" hosting for a year and then you'd be hooked for the life time of the startup. But it's not that obvious anymore that is a good choice for cash strapped startups.
Btw. Hetzner now operates in the US. It's a pretty good deal there as well. It's not like you have to give your money to Amazon.
Luckily our friends overseas have shown us the way of dealing with uncompetitive local industries: tariffs.
It’s tongue-in-cheek given how AI-bros seem to think human intelligence is no different from the function of an LLM.
At least I’m not hiding behind throwaway accounts.
Complete, utter bullshit. There are maybe 4 countries in the world with significantly less dependence on US tech. Out of those 4, one has magnitudes more government interference, another one has even more rules and regulations - including even stricter data privacy laws than GDPR - than the EU, the third has slightly less than the EU but also the lowest local tech % our of the 4, and the last one is Russia.
But sure, it's the rules and regulations that are the problem.
If you have any knowledge on the topic I don't need to name the other three.
Talking software as that's the discussion here, not hardware.
Ok so where's the European alternatives? Where are they? Because in my experience as a Norwegian citizen who has started and run tech companies, we simply can't compete on this kind of tech because energy is more expensive, all the added costs of employment are so incredibly expensive (despite massive amounts of immigration, which only drains our welfare state anyway) and all the EU-based rules and regulations we must follow even when we're not direct members; all of these things and more related to them are absolutely stifling.
In this environment there is zero chance of an "AWS-like" competitor or anything remotely like it in the tech sector. And if you say "Hezner" I've got a bridge to sell you.
France cloud provider scalaway has great prices. In some services they are cheaper then AWS. So I think that devs just need to research a bit more.
Also Hetzner (germany) is super cheap when compared with US hosting providers.