Comment by murkt

Comment by murkt a day ago

31 replies

How can they alter humanity? What's the difference for humanity since CERN found Higgs particle? In what ways could the potential dark matter particle detection alter humanity?

niemandhier a day ago

It’s a place where extremely skilled people work highly motivated on humanities hardest problems at scale.

CERN pushed distributed computing and storage before anyone else hat problems on that scale.

CERN pushed edge computing for massive data analysis before anyone else even generated data at that rate.

CERN is currently pushing the physical boundaries of device synchronisation ( Check „ White Rabbit“ ), same for data transmission. CERNS accelerator cooling tech paves the way for industrial super cooling, magnet coils push super conduction…

Companies are always late in the game, they come once there is money to be had: No one founded a fusion startup until we were close enough to the relevant tripple product.

  • vjvjvjvjghv a day ago

    Seems these are all positive things and it’s good that private donors are adding some money.

  • crote 21 hours ago

    Sure, but if experimental physics don't matter, wouldn't it be a far better idea to develop all those kinds of technology without actually building the expensive collider itself?

    • spongebobstoes 20 hours ago

      that's like building an API with no customers -- rarely a good idea

  • sylware a day ago

    You are perfectly right, this has been similar to the "space industry" (which includes 'ballistic nukes' knowhow maintainance). The thing with a bigger collider is it seems there are, not that honnest, scientists retro-fitting models in order to reach 'appropriate for this new collider' energy ranges where 'new physics' could be found.

    • XorNot a day ago

      What does that even mean? The FCC is essentially the next plausible energy range we can probe with a collider.

      Going larger would cost more, and add risk.

      So like, yes? The obvious thing to do is to analyze our models and come up with experiments to do within energy ranges which are plausibly accessible with near future technology.

      • sylware a day ago

        This is where there is a questionable issue: some network of dishonest scientists may have retro-fitted the models in order to get realitic energy ranges for this new collider.

        • [removed] a day ago
          [deleted]
  • zeristor a day ago

    I misread the first bit as the hardest problem in the Humanities.

    I’m not sure I have any idea what the hardest problem in the humanities is.

mr_mitm a day ago

In what way would studying black body radiation alter humanity? Oh just the basis for quantum mechanics and thus transistors, lasers, MRIs, photovoltaics, and more.

The point is, you don't know in advance. I admit it's a bit more far fetched with these experiments that are so far removed from everyday life, but they're still worthwhile.

pjmlp a day ago

Cancer treatment goes back to particle physics research at CERN, the Web was born there, cloud was previously known as Grid Computing at CERN,

Three examples of how humanity would not be as we know it today without CERN.

As Alumni, there are many other changes that trace back to CERN.

We don't sit only on the H1 beer garden and go skiing.

  • mikkupikku a day ago

    I understand how linacs and even small compact syncrotrons can have practical medical and industrial applications, and I understand that in the past CERN has developed technology and produced research which is relevant to hardon therapy.

    What I don't understand, and maybe you can clarify, is how the very largest gargantuan accelerators can ever have practical relevance. How can effects and products which can only be studied with accelerators that are many miles large ever have application in hospitals unless those hospitals are also many miles large? Not going to lie, I get "NASA invented Tang" vibes whenever this subject comes up; like the medical applications of small accelerators are obvious and parsable to the public, so they are used to sell the public on accelerators the size of small countries.

    • pjmlp a day ago

      Because of the engineering effort required to build such systems, that no one has built before, means there is a gigantic amount of R&D discoveries that can be eventually applied in other fields outside particle physics.

      Mechanical, electronic, informatics, chemistry, physics,...

      Hence why CERN eventually created an industry collaboration office, responsible for finding business partners that would like to make a business out of such discoveries.

      https://knowledgetransfer.web.cern.ch/activities-services/co...

  • SoftTalker 20 hours ago

    > the Web was born there

    The internet existed, hypertext existed, it was just happenstance that it was put together there. It would have happened somewhere, maybe not exactly the same protocol but the same end result.

    • pjmlp 18 hours ago

      Indeed and we are all still waiting for Xanadu.

  • bonsai_spool a day ago

    > Cancer treatment goes back to particle physics

    Are you speaking about proton therapy? I don’t think there’s any evidence that works better than alternatives

    • pjmlp a day ago

      What matters is that exists, and is another possibility for treatments.

      https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4724719/

      • bonsai_spool 21 hours ago

        I disagree that any new possibility for treatments should be lauded. The theoretical side of things is fine, but many new treatments are far more expensive than existing options without offering improved outcomes.

        This is orthogonal to your point about CERN being useful.

    • somethingsome a day ago

      What do you mean by 'any evidence that works better Than alternatives'?

      It can deliver radiations to the brain that will peak at the exact position of the cancer, and reduce irradiation in sane tissues. The 'better' is 'less irradiation to sane tissues' that in turn reduces the risk for new cancers.

      Note: I'm not expert on the matter, but I had technical visits to IBA and know several PhDs that work there

      • bonsai_spool 21 hours ago

        > What do you mean by 'any evidence that works better Than alternatives'?

        I mean exactly that, clinical trials demonstrating that proton therapy is superior to radiation therapy. This is not a question about the physics but about how patients respond (and whether the expense of delivering proton therapy outweighs the expected marginal benefits).

hnthrow0287345 a day ago

Less that and more "we built a really complex machine and we can apply those skills elsewhere".