Comment by inglor_cz

Comment by inglor_cz a day ago

5 replies

I studied math (Algebra and Number Theory) and I am also quite interested in history, and while I cannot write you a whole essay, this is what I would like to react to:

"The author smears the boundary between what people believe and what is logically entailed"

This is not the fault of the author. This is a fairly accurate description of the societal situation back then, and the article is more about societal impacts of math than math itself. Revolutionary, and later Napoleonic France had very high regard for science, to the degree that Napoleon took a sizeable contingent of scientists (including then-top mathematicians like Gaspard Monge) with him to Egypt in 1799. The same France also conquered half of the continent and upended traditional relations everywhere.

This caused some political reaction in the, well, more reactionary parts of the world, especially given that the foundations of modern mathematics were yet incomplete. Many important algebraic and analytic theorems were only discovered/proven in the 19th century proper. Therefore, there was a certain tendency to RETVRN to the golden age of geometry, which also for historical reasons didn't involve any French people (and that was politically expedient).

If I had to compare this situation to whatever is happening now, it would be politicization of biology/medicine after Covid. Another similarity is that many scientists were completely existentially dependent on their kings, which didn't give them a lot of independence, especially in bigger countries, where you could not simply move to a competing jurisdiction 20 miles away.

If your sovereign is somewhat educated (which, at that time, was already quite normal; these aren't illiterate chieftains of the Carolingian era) and hates subversive French (mathematical or otherwise) innovations with passion, you won't be dabbling with them openly.

aebtebeten 17 hours ago

I'd always kind of imagined the reactionary geometers were defending an order in which their tools were imperfect finite approximations that yielded insights into perfect infinite truths, where the original sin of the revolutionary analysts was in saying that "yes, and with compactness and continuity, many of these problems have their α-and-ω in finite descriptions".

Is that a fair take? Would it be one, even if it were ahistorical?

  • inglor_cz 16 hours ago

    I like that perspective, but I believe the conflict was more about "old vs. new". Geometry was very old by that point, ancient, and it carried a lot of personal gravitas by being associated with Euclid, Archimedes, Thales etc. (Galenic theory of humors enjoyed similar ancient intellectual prestige, hence its long and bitter retreat from the scene at approximately the same time.) It was also "obviously right", in the sense of "everyone can look and see for themselves". Even uneducated peple can verify that a certain line touches both circles etc. No wonder it was an attractive safe haven for conservative minds.

    Meanwhile, analysis was not yet particularly rigorous and it took several decades to converge on a standard apparatus and notation that could at least be understood coherently by other mathematicians. (Laymen tend to struggle with it until today.) Add the political dimensions of being seen friendly to the French into the mix, well...

andrewflnr 17 hours ago

> This is not the fault of the author. This is a fairly accurate description of the societal situation back then

The author is not giving a helpful description if they slip into the same mistakes as the people of the time.

bgilroy26 16 hours ago

>Therefore, there was a certain tendency to RETVRN to the golden age of geometry

Echoed in the LaRouchians of the 2000s. I don't know what they're up to now