Comment by trilogic

Comment by trilogic 2 days ago

22 replies

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What is different this time? Maybe:

1 Online shopping market in the range of 5 trillions 2 Electricity and energy price raise 3 Impossibility to lower interest rates 4 Tech market also in the range of multi Trillions 5 Global education and power expansion ...

Meaning that a % of all this money flow goes private pockets destroying medium class, which gets poorer.

It is like a memory leak that keeps sucking resources while growing exponentially until the system crashes. The real question for an economist is how much ram has the system and how much the memory has leaked?

This Legendary site is interesting: https://usdebtclock.org/index.html Especially when combined it´s data with AI.

danans 16 hours ago

> It feels as though all we need is a spark. And yet, many sparks seem to have come and gone. Big market moves, in stocks or yields, that have recovered. Tariff and invasion threats, protests, you name it, they might move the needle but it always seems to move back. So, perhaps we won? Perhaps we built our markets so stable that they are these days impervious

This is a myopic question only considering the values of securities, gold/silver, etc, which are owned in significance by relatively few.

The working class economy has already crashed. People who have to put in hours to get paid are struggling, and consumer spending is dominated by the top 10%.

The media, ever fixated on the economic welfare of the top 1%, spins a story that if the stock market is doing well, the economy is doing well.

Meanwhile there is an quiet bet that authoritarians will protect interests of capital owners over all else (i.e the bailout OpenAI hinted they might need), while suppressing the primary methods the masses have for expressing their discontent: speech, organizing/demonstrating, strikes, and voting.

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red-iron-pine 2 days ago

you can couch it in tech metaphors but there is a clear path forward and it involves eating a certain class of people

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  • Nevermark a day ago

    Big problems are solved by years of investment and good decision making.

    Unfortunately, going after causes or correcting symptom in any kind of hurry acts as a massive destabilizer at exactly the moment systemic destabilization provides the motive/momentum for taking action.

    Hard course corrections at critical pressure, in a complex system, is a value destroying reset.

    Companies can do this. Mass layoffs, capitalization sell off, etc. And then recover over time, because the rest of the economy around them is mores stable and the pain gets diluted. Entire countries doing this doesn't work out so well.

    But it would appear, that may be the path we are most likely to take.

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  • themafia a day ago

    You don't have to eat them. You just have to erect significant barriers to hoarding wealth, particularly in off shore devices, and you have to create constant pressure to ensure that stored wealth is best re-invested in the economy at large.

    These aren't even hard problems. Until you meet someone in Congress. Then it suddenly seems hopeless.

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    • PeterHolzwarth a day ago

      >and you have to create constant pressure to ensure that stored wealth is best re-invested in the economy at large

      I have no idea if this is true (I've asked economists-in-training, they say they'll get back to me), but I've read that the huge increases in tax rates on high income during the war was less to generate revenue (tho more revenue was certainly a need - there was also a growing focus on growing the number of people who paid taxes, which prior had been quite small), but more to ensure profits were not realized and instead kept invested in the economy and the war machine.

      A kind of practical "hodl" to keep the wartime economy stock with reinvestment - or really to discourage removing money from industrial investment - to benefit the war-time economy.

      Would like links to things to learn more about this line of reasoning.

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    • pfannkuchen a day ago

      Isn’t hoarded wealth a no-op? It just reduces the supply of whatever they are hoarding.

      Would the people benefit from redistributing the things they are hoarding? Corporate stock that pays little to no dividends, mainly? It’s not like they are hoarding wheat. I don’t really get what people think will happen if we redistribute the stored wealth.

      All wealth is, is a claim to direct labor and materials, the magnitude of which is relative to the total amount of wealth competing to direct those at present. If some portion of the wealth is locked away, the labor and materials are still being deployed, just the total pool of wealth competing to direct them is smaller than it would be otherwise. Unlocking wealth does not actually bring more stuff into existence.

      Now, it could redirect labor and materials used to built yachts or luxury homes into more practical goods. But my impression is that the labor and materials used for those things are minuscule compared to the overall economy, and most of the wealth of the very wealthy is not actually used for those sorts of things.

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      • enraged_camel a day ago

        >> Isn’t hoarded wealth a no-op? It just reduces the supply of whatever they are hoarding.

        It’s not. Wealth creates political power, which the wealthy wield to stack the odds in their own favor at the expense of everyone else.

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    • twoodfin a day ago

      ensure that stored wealth is best re-invested in the economy at large

      Pretty sure the vast, vast bulk of wealth held by the richest US households is indeed “reinvested in the economy at large”.

      Where do you think it is instead?

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      • shimman a day ago

        Supporting companies that profit off of misery, reduce human meaningfulness, those that innovate the surveillance state; why is it so hard to support policies like giving US school children free breakfast + lunch, medicare for all, public housing, universal childcare, federally mandated paid time off, universal higher education + vocational training, and a public jobs program (all things that have 70-90% voter approval across party lines; the new deal coalition literally had control of both houses of Congress for nearly 60 years unabated)? Programs that would literally unleash hundreds of trillions in monetary + societal benefits, why should the US population care about the wealth of the few compared to what we can do to provide meaningful lives collectively?

        The idea that less than 100 people in the country have some sort of mandated right from the devil to dictate the direction of technology in our country should fill every single decent human being with disgust.

        We must correct this. The fact that several hyper scale data centers could provide US school children free lunches + breakfast for a year should be the first immediate sign that something is deeply wrong with our country.

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      • HNisCIS 19 hours ago

        When you invest you get shares. Shares come with votes. Do you think these people are voting to make your life better or do you think they're voting to arbitrarily raise prices to increase the value of their shares?

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John7878781 17 hours ago

Is it just me or does this metaphor sound AI generated?

> It is like a memory leak that keeps sucking resources while growing exponentially until the system crashes. The real question for an economist is how much ram has the system and how much the memory has leaked?

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  • rglynn 16 hours ago

    "... how much ram has the system" is a typo or an ESL mistake, so not an LLM.

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