Comment by xXSLAYERXx

Comment by xXSLAYERXx 3 days ago

66 replies

Senior dev here 15 years experience just turned 50 have family blah blah. I've been contracting for the last two years. The org is just starting to use Claude. I've been delegating - well copy pasting - into chatgpt which has to be the laziest way to leverage AI. I've been so successful (meaning haven't had to do anything really except argue with chatgpt when it goes off on some tangent) with this approach that I can't even be bothered to set up my Claude environment. I swear when this contract is over I'm opening a mobile food cart.

chasd00 3 days ago

I'm similar ( turning 50 in a couple month, wife+2 kids etc) and was telling my wife this morning that the world of software development has definitely changed. I don't know what it will look like in the future but it won't look like the past. It seems producing the text that can be compiled into instructions for a computer is something LLMs particularly good at. Maybe a good analogy is going from a bare text editor to a modern IDE. It's happening very fast though, way faster than the evolution of IDEs.

  • falloutx 3 days ago

    I was saying this yesterday, There will be people building good software somewhere, but chances to it happening in current corporate environment is nearing zero. Change is mostly in the management, and not in the Software Development itself. Yeah we may be like 50% faster but we are expected to be 10x devs.

SockThief 3 days ago

That is the most down to earth summary of all things AI I've heard so far! Good luck with the cart and be good. :)

daxfohl 3 days ago

Same situation (50 last week, 2 kids) though have been unemployed for a year. Part of me thinks that, rather than taking jobs, AI is actually the only reason a lot of jobs still exist. The rest of tech is dead. Having worked in consulting a while ago, you can kind of feel it when you're approaching the point where you've implemented all the high value stuff for a client and, even though there's stuff you could do, they're going to drop you to a retainer contract because it's just not the same value.

That's how the whole industry feels now. The only investment money is flowing into AI, and so companies with any tech presence are touting their AI whatevers at every possible moment (including during layoffs) just to get some capital. Without that, I wonder if we'd be seeing even harsher layoffs than we already are.

  • jacquesm 3 days ago

    > The only investment money is flowing into AI

    That's so not true. Of the 23 companies we reviewed last year maybe 3 had significant AI in their workflow, the rest were just solid businesses delivering stuff that people actually need. I have no doubt that that proportion will grow significantly, and that this growth will probably happen this year but to suggest that outside of AI there is no investment is just not compatible with real world observations.

    • daxfohl 3 days ago

      That's good to hear actually. It's usually a downer when a strongly held belief is contradicted with hard evidence, but I'm excited to hear that there's life yet in the industry outside of AI. Any specific trends or themes you can share?

      • jacquesm 3 days ago

        Energy is a much larger theme than it was in the years before (obviously, since we're in the EU and energy overall is a larger theme in society here. This has a reflection in the VC market, but it also is part of a much larger trend, climate change and CO2 neutrality).

        Another trend - and this surprised us - is a much stronger presence of really hard tech and associated industries and finally - for obvious reasons, so not really surprising - more parties active in defense.

  • mrsilencedogood 3 days ago

    Software will ALWAYS be an attractive VC target. The economics are just too good. The profit margins are just inherently fat as fuck compared to literally anything else. Your main expense is headcount and the incremental cost of your widget is ~$0? It's literally a dream.

    It's also why so much of AI is targeting software, specifically SAAS. A SaaS company with ~0 headcount driven by AI is basically 100% profit margin. A truly perfect conception of capitalism.

    Meanwhile I think AI actually has a decent shot at "curing" cancer. AI-assisted radiology means screening could be come significantly cheaper, happen a lot more often, and catch cancers very early, which is extremely important as everyone knows to surviving it. The cure for cancer might actually just involve much earlier detection. But pfft what are the profit margins on _that_?

    • daxfohl 3 days ago

      Yeah for the better part of a generation, our best and brightest minds have been wasted on "increasing click count". If that can all be AI from here on out, then maybe we can get actual humans working on the real problems again.

      • drivebyhooting 3 days ago

        The problem was always funding. All those bright minds went into ads because it paid well. Cancer research, space, propulsion, clean, energy, etc.. none of those paid particularly well. Nor would they have afforded a comfortable life with a house and family. The evisceration of SWE does not guarantee a flourishing in other fields. On the contrary, increased labor supply with further pressure, wages, downwards.

    • b3kart 3 days ago

      It’s funny that perfect capitalism (no payroll expenses) means nobody has money to actually buy any of the goods produced by AI.

      Re cancer: I wonder how significant is the cost of reading the results vs. the logistics of actually running the test

      • daxfohl 3 days ago

        Bots using bots to write software for bots. And it only cost 5 trillion dollars!

        The best part? Bots don't get cancer, so that problem is solved too!

      • 9rx 3 days ago

        > It’s funny that perfect capitalism (no payroll expenses) means nobody has money to actually buy any of the goods produced by AI.

        When you remember that profit is the measure of unrealized benefit, and look at how profitable capitalists have become, its not clear if, approximately speaking, anyone actually has the "money" to buy any goods now.

        In other words, I am not sure this matters. Big business is already effectively working for free, with no realistic way to ever actually derive the benefit that has been promised to it. In theory those promises could be called, but what are the people going to give back in return?

    • llmslave 3 days ago

      when software gets cheap to build the economics will change

SecretDreams 3 days ago

> I swear when this contract is over I'm opening a mobile food cart.

This is the way. I think I'd like to be a barista or deliver the mail once all the jobs are gone.

  • bayarearefugee 3 days ago

    > I think I'd like to be a barista

    If/when AI wipes out the white collar "knowledge worker" jobs who is going to be able to afford going to the coffee shop?

  • re-thc 3 days ago

    > I think I'd like to be a barista or deliver the mail once all the jobs are gone.

    Those are even easier to automate or have already been most of the way.

    • SecretDreams 3 days ago

      Are you going in to a lot of coffee shops?

      • re-thc 2 days ago

        And? As people (the consumers) get automated away there will be less. We also have things like instant coffee, automatic coffee machines, etc that have all reduced the need for manual coffee.

        • SecretDreams 2 days ago

          It's hard to take you seriously with this rebuttal. You don't go to coffee shops and probably don't care for coffee if you're talking about instant coffee. Why even speak at all on this subject that you are not familiar with? Not every thought that enters your mind needs to be written out.

Isamu 3 days ago

Same, except I am over 60 and when I think of opening a mobile food cart it is sort of a Blade Runner vibe, staffed by a robot ramen chef that grumbles at customers and always says something back to you in some cyber slang that you don’t understand.

chinathrow 3 days ago

> I swear when this contract is over I'm opening a mobile food cart.

Please keep us posted. I'm thinking of becoming a small time farmer/zoo keeper.

  • xXSLAYERXx 3 days ago

    Not sure if this is sarcasm or not but I will keep everyone posted haha

    • chinathrow 3 days ago

      Absolutely not, I've been earning my living as a coder for now 25y and eventually, enough is enough.

datsci_est_2015 3 days ago

How does code review usually go for you? Our org’s bottleneck is often code review, which is how we reduce bus factor and other risks. Getting to the pull request faster doesn’t really save us that much time.

fapjacks 3 days ago

Weird side question, but any chance you use(d) the same name on Playstation Network?

  • xXSLAYERXx 3 days ago

    No, xbox ecosystem with different user name.

    • fapjacks 3 days ago

      That's fair. It would have been a weird reunion anyway.

wallstbot 3 days ago

That you started at around 35 is a salient point, no? What did you do before?

  • xXSLAYERXx 3 days ago

    Sold financial products before. Curious why you think my starting age was important?

hibikir 3 days ago

You'd have to do even less copy-pasting. The switch to some agent that has access to your source code directory speed things up so much, the time spent pays for itself in the first day.

  • xXSLAYERXx 3 days ago

    I have access to chatgpt codex since i'm on the premium plan. Seems like the lowest barrier to entry for me (cost, learning curve). I will truly have to give this a go. My neighbor is also a dev and he is flabbergasted that i have not at least integrated it into a side project.

    • dwaltrip 2 days ago

      Ya you gotta try it. Just download it and start typing into the terminal instead of the ChatGPT text box on the web.

      You can also use cursor which is essentially vs code with these features baked in.

torginus 3 days ago

Is it just me, or does Claude Code's UI design which both prevents copy-pasting large snippets and viewing the code as its generated feel incredibly discomforting?

lbrito 3 days ago

What were you doing before programming, at age 35? Different career?

  • xXSLAYERXx 3 days ago

    Yes completely different career. Sold financial products.

    • lbrito 3 days ago

      Very interesting! Thanks for sharing.

      Its hard (or at least in my experience) to find people to change career - more so in their mid-thirties. I'm the opposite -- software developer career, now in mid 30s, and the AI crap gets me thinking about backup plans career-wise.

citizenpaul 3 days ago

Can you expand on the tech stack and languages used?

  • xXSLAYERXx 3 days ago

    C# / Web Sockets / React. Lots of legacy code. Great group of engineering folks.

jimbo808 3 days ago

I have read this same comment so many times in various forms. I know many of them are shill accounts/bots, but many are real. I think there are a few things at play that make people feel this way. Even if you're in a CRUD shop with low standards for reliability/scale/performance/efficiency, a person who isn't an experienced engineer could not make the LLM do your job. LLMs have a perfect combination of traits that cause people to overestimate their utility. The biggest one I think is that their utility is super front-loaded.

If a task before would take you ten hours to think through the thing, translate that into an implementation approach, implement it, and test it, and at the end of the ten hours you're 100% there and you've got a good implementation which you understand and can explain to colleagues in detail later if needed. Your code was written by a human expert with intention, and you reviewed it as you wrote it and as you planned the work out.

With an LLM, you spend the same amount of time figuring out what you're going to do, plus more time writing detailed prompts and making the requisite files and context available for the LLM, then you press a button and tada, five minutes later you have a whole bunch of code. And it sorta seems to work. This gives you a big burst of dopamine due to the randomness of the result. So now, with your dopamine levels high and your work seemingly basically done, your brain registers that work as having been done in those five minutes.

But you now (if you're doing work people are willing to pay you for), you probably have to actually verify that it didn't break things or cause huge security holes, and clean up the redundant code and other exceedingly verbose garbage it generated. This is not the same process as verifying your own code. First, LLM output is meant to look as correct as possible, and it will do some REALLY incorrect things that no sane person would do that are not easy to spot in the same way you'd spot them if it were human-written. You also don't really know what all of this shit is - it almost always has a ton of redundant code, or just exceedingly verbose nonsense that ends up being technical debt and more tokens in the context for the next session. So now you have to carefully review it. You have to test things you wouldn't have had to test, with much more care, and you have to look for things that are hard to spot, like redundant code or regressions with other features it shouldn't have touched. And you have to actually make sure it did what you told it to, because sometimes it says it did, and it just didn't. This is a whole process. You're far from done here, and this (to me at least) can only be done by a professional. It's not hard - it's tedious and boring, but it does require your learned expertise.

  • ash-b-dev 3 days ago

    I think a lot of the proliferation of AI as a self-coding agent has been driven by devs who haven’t written much meaningful code, so whatever the LLM spits out looks great to them because it runs. People don’t actually read the AI’s code unless something breaks.

  • likium 3 days ago

    So set up e2e tests and make sure it does things you said you wanted. Just like how you use a library or database. Trust, but verify. Only if it breaks do you have to peak under the covers.

    Sadly people do not care about redundant and verbose code. If that was a concern, we wouldn't have 100+mb of apps, nor 5mb web app bundles. Multibillion b2b apps shipping a 10mb json file just for searching emojis and no one blinks an eye.

    • skydhash 3 days ago

      The effort to set up e2e tests can be more than just writing the thing. Especially for UI as computers just does not interpret things as humans do (spatial relation, overflow, low to no contrast between elements).

      • jimbo808 3 days ago

        Also, the assumption that you can do ___ thing (tests, some dumb agent framework, some prompting trick), and suddenly magically all of the problems with LLMs vanish, is very wrong and very common.

        • instig007 3 days ago

          > Also, the assumption that you can do ___ thing

          ...

          3. profit

          4. bro down

    • [removed] 3 days ago
      [deleted]
  • torginus 3 days ago

    I just wanna make the point that I've grown to dislike the term 'CRUD' especially as a disparaging remark against some software. Every web application I've worked on featured a database, that you could usually query or change through a web interface, but that was an easy and small part of the whole thing it did.

    Is a webshop a CRUD app? Is an employee shift tracking site? I could go on, but I feel 'CRUD' app is about as meaningful a moniker as 'desktop app'

    • jimbo808 3 days ago

      It's a pretty easy category to identify, some warning signs:

      - You rarely write loops at work

      - Every performance issue is either too many trips to the database or to some server

      - You can write O(n^n) functions and nobody will ever notice

      - The hardest technical problem anyone can remember was an N+1 query and it stuck around for like a year before enough people complained and you added an index

      - You don't really ever have to make difficult engineering decisions, but if you do, you can make the wrong one most of the time and it'll be fine

      - Nobody in the shop could explain: lock convoying, GC pauses, noisy neighbors, cache eviction cascades, one hot shard, correlating traces with scheduler behavior, connection pool saturation, thread starvation, backpressure propagation across multiple services, etc

      I spent a few years in shops like this, if this is you, you must fight the urge to get comfortable because the vibe coders are coming for you.

  • eitally 3 days ago

    There are exceptions to what I'm about to say, but it is largely the rule.

    The thing a lot of people who haven't lived it don't seem to recognize is that enterprise software is usually buggy and brittle, and that's both expected and accepted because most IT organizations have never paid for top technical talent. If you're creating apps for back office use, or even supply chain and sometimes customer facing stuff, frequently 95% availability is good enough, and things that only work about 90-95% of the time without bugs is also good enough. There's such an ingrained mentality in big business that "internal tools suck" that even if AI-generated tools also suck similarly it's still going to be good enough for most use cases.

    It's important for readers in a place like HN to realize that the majority of software in the world is not created in our tech bubble, and most apps only have an audience ranging from dozens to several thousands of users.

    • jimbo808 3 days ago

      Internal tools do suck as far as usability, but you can bet your ass they work if they're doing things that matter to the business, which is most of them. Almost every enterprise system hooks into the finance/accounting pipeline to varying degrees. If these systems do not work at your company I'd like to know which company you work at and whether they're publicly traded.

    • abracadaniel 3 days ago

      A potential difference I see is that when internal tools break, you generally have people with a full mental model of the tool who can take manual intervention. Of course, that fails when you lay off the only people with that knowledge, which leads to the cycle of “let’s just rewrite it, the old code is awful”. With AI it seems like your starting point is that failure mode of a lack of knowledge and a mental model of the tool.

AndrewKemendo 2 days ago

Fellow old here… Sorry to tell you but robotic food carts are going to be impossible to compete against

So you’ll need some kind of humanistic hook if you want to get reliable customers

Expect there will be two worlds that are extremely different: the machine world of efficiency that most people live inside as gears of machine capitalism

The biological world where there’s no efficiencies and it’s primarily hunter gatherers with mystical rituals

The latter one is only barely still the majority worldwide (only 25-30% of humans aren’t on the internet)