Comment by pjc50

Comment by pjc50 3 days ago

28 replies

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The Elizabeth Line, formerly known as Crossrail, is a lot more similar to the hundred year plan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossrail

My dad was a tunnels engineer and worked on Crossrail feasibility studies at several points in his career across decades.

London is is many ways one of the less impressive subway systems simply because much of it is so old, with small trains running in Victorian era tunnels. Not as bad as the Glasgow one, which feels like travelling on a 2/3 scale model of a subway with alarmingly narrow platforms.

It is however a point of contention within the UK that London public transport is better than public transport in almost every other city, due to being properly nationalized.

rmccue 3 days ago

> Not as bad as the Glasgow one, which feels like travelling on a 2/3 scale model of a subway with alarmingly narrow platforms.

For anyone who's not aware, the Glasgow Subway is literally smaller - the track gauge is 4ft (85% of standard gauge), and the rolling stock (trains) is similarly scaled down, to the point that you probably have to duck if you're over 6ft.

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  • nanna 3 days ago

    I remember that one of Stockholm's train line is also endearingly tiny too?

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    • direwolf20 3 days ago

      Half the Berlin lines are weirdly narrow, but not short.

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  • browningstreet 3 days ago

    Budapest subway is something similar, too.

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    • inglor_cz 3 days ago

      The oldest line which was inaugurated in the late 19th century, yes. (Though IIRC it is standard gauge.)

      The three modern lines are spacious and high-capacity.

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nialv7 3 days ago

Very true. If you really want to see rail lines materialise out of thin air, go to any major cities in China.

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kakacik 3 days ago

To americans, London public transport feels amazing. To rest of Europe, its lets say OKish

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  • matt-p 3 days ago

    I've lived in and visted many other cities in Europe. Public transport is often much cheaper than London, but there's few examples where I'd really say it was /better/. Can you think of an example?

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    • Beretta_Vexee 3 days ago

      Oslo and Madrid come to mind. For the worst than london, The Rome underground is so sparse, it not really usefull. Paris is dense, chaotic and overcrowded.

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      • 4ndrewl 3 days ago

        Ok, Oslo would be a small city in the UK - London has 12x the population. Madrid is closer. Paris is great - the ride is very smooth.

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      • matt-p 3 days ago

        Every single time I've been in Madrid the metro has been on strike. Every time. They run about 50-60% of services which means everything is slow and packed. I would actually say it's one of the worst in europe in my (I guess limited) experience due to that. I will have to try Oslo!

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    • storus 3 days ago

      Anywhere in Germany? E.g. Frankfurt has much higher density of subway lines and trams.

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      • matt-p 3 days ago

        Frankfurt is less than a tenth the size, I'm not sure it's really a comparison. I found Berlin to be no better/slightly worse.

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      • walthamstow 3 days ago

        Of course the transport is good in most DE cities but seriously, Frankfurt is a village compared to London. London's network is both vast and dense.

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  • short_sells_poo 3 days ago

    To people who have to commute to London, particularly if it's not a mainline train, it's tragically bad and overpriced. Train outages happen on a daily basis, the fare is very expensive compared to mainland Europe and the quality is quite a bit worse.

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    • matt-p 3 days ago

      True, but it's not london public transport (e.g not TFL) and that may actually be the only reason it's bad. Look what happened when TFL took over national rail services inside london (silverlink > overground).

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ghaff 3 days ago

It's a pretty extensive system and the pretty new Elizabeth Line is great. But if you take something like the Piccadilly Line in from the airport, you probably shouldn't have a lot of luggage because a lot of stations just have stairs and platforms are often at a significant offset from the underground cars. (The double decker busses also work pretty well although they're not generally my default.)

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  • matt-p 3 days ago

    The Piccadilly Line was opened in 1906 for gods sake, forgive them for not catering to people with 3 suitcases very well! That's part of the reason we built the Elizabeth Line, to enable a better transport option for people coming into heathrow.

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    • inglor_cz 3 days ago

      It is interesting how infrastructure silently reflects society of its time.

      In 1906, people travelling with three suitcases would likely have servants carrying them, and no one cared particularly about comfort of servants.

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      • matt-p 3 days ago

        I'm not sure they'd of gotten the tube at all, unless perhaps to connect to a mainline station for a trip to the country? I still feel it more likely they'd of been driven, either by horse drawn or maybe even car (at least to the station) even in 1906.

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  • zabzonk 3 days ago

    > a lot of stations just have stairs

    Very few, if any. They may not have escalators (Covent garden, for eg., but no-one in their right mind uses that - just use Leicester Square and walk on the street) but there are almost always ways of getting up to the street, and assistance is signposted for people with problems.

    > platforms are often at a significant offset from the underground cars

    Not sure what you mean here - mind the gap? Typically less on the Piccadilly than some other lines - Bank on the Central is particularly scary.

    Based on living 30-odd years in London, most of it using the Piccadilly line on my daily commute and to get to LHR.

    Sounding like a TfL groupie here, but it is a pretty good transit system, given geographic and budgetary constraints.

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    • ghaff 3 days ago

      It's not just the gap. The platform can also be a somewhat significant step up from the car. Normally not a big deal but a couple years back I had both real dress clothing and clothes for a long walk in my luggage on a fairly long trip overall.

      Agree that the Underground is good in general. I've used it a lot. That particular trip was just a case of having heavier luggage than I usually carry and I should have handled things differently.

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marssaxman 2 days ago

I'll be visiting Glasgow in May, and very much hope I'll have a chance to visit the miniature subway. Third ever built, first to be called a "subway", never expanded since it opened in 1896 - how can you not love a system like that?

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