NoPicklez 4 days ago

Why is it seen initially so negatively?

There's nothing inherently wrong with a company deciding to stop producing models that are extremely old, have newer comparable models that are more widely available globally and sell multiples more of. So why would you keep those older models?

If anything its a good thing. But its Tesla so nothing they do will be spoken positively of.

  • breve 4 days ago

    > Why is it seen initially so negatively?

    Because Tesla is being measured against the benchmarks they set for themselves. It's not a good look with cancelled models, declining sales, and a lot of self-inflicted brand damage.

    Musk used to claim Tesla will sell 20 million vehicles per year:

    https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...

    The new goal is to have sold 20 million in total by 2035. That target represents a further decline in sales. And, given that Tesla over-hypes everything, maybe they won't achieve it:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/05/business/elon-musk-tesla-...

  • addaon 4 days ago

    > Why is it seen initially so negatively?

    They went from being able to profitably produce a luxury car, to not being able to profitably produce a luxury car, to not being able to produce a luxury car at all. All while becoming uncompetitive in the econobox market, and losing huge chunks of it even before their real competitors arrive in market…

    • jeltz 4 days ago

      Yeah, in Europe Tesla is not losing to BYD. They are losing to VW and BMV before the Chinese manufacturers have entered the competition for real.

      • WorldMaker 3 days ago

        And Renault and Dacia and MG and…

        Europe doesn't seem to want for EV competition in anything like the same way that the US is falling behind.

    • MBCook 4 days ago

      But they’re making a robot! It will totally save the company!

      On top of all the problems you have identified, as well as more, they’re clearly now just aiming for fantasy land.

  • tensor 4 days ago

    I'm not surprised at the X, but the S has always been the flagship model with all the best features and the top performance. The 3 is a fine mid-sized car but it's very strange to get rid of your flagship model. Those always cater to a small audience anyways.

    • jerlam 4 days ago

      Yes, flagship models aren't intended to be good sellers. They often are where new features are tested out on customers willing to overpay to be early adopters. Tesla did test out the new steering yoke and removing the control stalks in the S: both features were met with tepid reception and partially rolled back. This is also bad for the 3 and Y, since there will be low confidence in any changes before they are released.

    • NoPicklez 4 days ago

      I guess from my perspective you can't buy the S or the X in Australia, all I see everywhere are the 3 and the Y. So for me its not flagship but I do know that the S was the original popular Tesla and has all of the bells and whistles.

      • WorldMaker 3 days ago

        The S was a true American "land yacht" in the classic style of an Oldsmobile. There's a lot of reasons for it to be seen as the US flagship model and for it to have done poorly in other markets or not even released to them.

    • groundzeros2015 3 days ago

      What if they have planned product lines we don’t know about.

      • WorldMaker 3 days ago

        Then the smarter PR move would be to tease those before announcing massive cuts?

        • groundzeros2015 3 days ago

          that's a reasonable strategy. Maybe they want to clear some inventory first?

  • browningstreet 4 days ago

    As a car company the expectation is that they develop new car models for consumers. They don’t seem to be doing that either.

    • NoPicklez 4 days ago

      They developed the Model 3 and Y, which is partly why they're stopping the S and X?

      They completely refreshed the Model Y last year and made a number of updates to the Model 3 including different body word.

      • TulliusCicero 4 days ago

        "Completely refreshed" is doing a lot of work here in that sentence.

        The new refreshes don't look nearly as big in terms of changes as new generations of car models for other manufacturers, and Lord knows even Tesla fans have plenty of things they'd like to see improved.

  • protastus 4 days ago

    Because it looks like Elon recognized Tesla's inability to compete against BYD and gave up making cars. This is negative.

    Since he couldn't leave it at that, he announced a pivot to a product that doesn't exist. This is also negative.

    • NoPicklez 3 days ago

      How did he give up? The model Y and the model 3 were refreshed last year. With the model 3 now pushing 750km of range.

      Ford got rid of plenty of popular models including all hatchbacks and many sedans.

  • SilverElfin 4 days ago

    Having a halo product can be inspiring. A lot of BMW buyers may get a boring old 3 series but they like that the low volume M cars exist, for example.

    • electriclove 4 days ago

      Maybe they will finally release the Roadster to serve this purpose

    • seanmcdirmid 4 days ago

      Just buy an i4, even the eDrive is pretty zippy 0-60 in 5.4 seconds (the M50 can do it in 3.1 seconds). I’m not sure what the M car EV will look like beyond a motor for every wheel, but I can’t really see a point to it.

    • MetaWhirledPeas 3 days ago

      If Tesla wanted to be BMW they could just do all the BMW things. But they are aspiring for more, so they flip the script quite often. I'm not arguing for or against their decisions; just saying that because BMW does it is not a good argument for them.

  • cosmicgadget 4 days ago

    Toyota sells a lot of Camrys and Corollas. It is nice that they also make (made?) Supras and 86s.

    Also we can have a conversation without tossing the "everyone hates Tesla!" poison down the well immediately.

    • NoPicklez 4 days ago

      The difference there is that Supra's and 86's are performance cars, whereas Camry's and Corollas arent. You can't compare a Hatchback to an 86.

      The Model S is comparable performance to the Model 3 performance.

      My point is that the latest models 3 & Y are more affordable alternatives to the S & X and more widely available globally.

      • cosmicgadget 4 days ago

        Okay that's my ignorance of Tesla models then, I assumed the more expensive models were also faster.

        I guess then it's more like Toyota EOLing Lexus or GM getting rid of Cadillac.

        I understand the point that the cheaper models are higher volume. Historically that had not precluded the creation of sports and luxury models for most manufacturers. Are the legacy brands wrong to do this? Currently I doubt their business acumen far less than Elon's.

  • fortran77 4 days ago

    But the 3 isn’t comparable. It’s cheap, looks cheap and feels cheap.

    • rossjudson 4 days ago

      Someone who owns a BMW 5 series isn't going to switch down to a new model of the 3 series. The X makes the 3 and Y feel like go karts (that are slow). The S is a missile. Fun, but not for me.

      The other way of looking at this: The X is the only Tesla model with door handles that aren't stupid.

      • NoPicklez 4 days ago

        How are they slow the Model 3 high performance does 0-100kph in 3.1 seconds? The X does it in 2.1, both of which are extremely fast and on par if not quicker than a 5 series BMW

  • electriclove 4 days ago

    Will they increase specs on the 3 and the Y after the S and X are sunset?

  • nunez 4 days ago

    Ford got a lot of heat for shifting all of their NA production to Mustangs and F-series trucks too a few years ago.

    • MBCook 4 days ago

      Ford didn’t say it was so they could make a robot butler instead.

      • kenhwang 4 days ago

        The reason was sillier: China forced Ford to sell Mazda to enter the Chinese market, because Mazda entered the Chinese market before Ford and China considered them the same entity subject to the same outside manufacturer limits).

        Mazda handled the small vehicle chassis design for Ford. So without Mazda, Ford no longer had the knowledge for continued development of their sedans and crossovers based on sedan platforms.

      • nunez 4 days ago

        No, but they are retooling their MachE factory to make batteries, which felt just as much of a wtf as this BS

    • Slothrop99 4 days ago

      Ford dropped sedans, they still have plenty of SUVs and other trucks you can buy.

  • EnPissant 3 days ago

    Because it's Elon Musk.

    10 years ago people here would be describing this as a good decision.

  • mrcwinn 4 days ago

    You are, of course, exactly right but you will nevertheless be downvoted for the same reasons you allude to.

yazantapuz 3 days ago

Relevant part: "Tesla's far more popular models are the 3 and Y, which accounted for 97% of the company's 1.59 million deliveries last year."

bhouston 4 days ago

Tesla is a meme stock in a similar manner to GME. You cannot bet against them even if they have incredibly unsure future prospectives because there are too many believers who will buy any dips.

  • al_borland 4 days ago

    That might be a little extreme. Tesla is making electric cars and robots. These are very much things of the future.

    GameStop is buying and selling used games, which is becoming impossible as consoles keep pushing for digital games.

    GameStop requires a major shift in their business model to stay relevant, while Tesla just needs to hope the public doesn’t reject the idea of electrics cars out of stubbornness or politics.

    While there is a lot of hype baked into both stocks, it seems like hype with Tesla is founded in more reality than the GameStop hype.

    • MBCook 4 days ago

      Didn’t they just announce their profits dropped like 45% year over a year?

      https://techcrunch.com/2026/01/28/tesla-earnings-profit-q4-2...

      They’ve been overvalued for a very very long time. And then the head of the company decided to alienate as many people as possible. All while pouring a ton of resources into a product that very few people want instead of saner things.

      • guywithahat 3 days ago

        Sure but they also beat earnings and revenue targets, and the stock price rose. I think it was expected for EV profits to drop when the tax credit left

        • fnordpiglet 3 days ago

          Let’s be clear tho - they are betting on two markets that have no history or assurance of success by crapping the bed with their golden goose.

          Tax credits and foreign competition are bad enough, but they really could innovate through it. They could even try robots and taxis and see if it floats. Instead it’s sink the ships behind them because Elon is never wrong.

          Their only benefit is the fact they can raise ludicrous capital to spend their way through many years of dumb. But that’s probably not enough to salvage the tire fire.

          My odds on their humanoid robots are basically zero. China is too far ahead here and I’m not convinced there’s a material market that could develop fast enough. I am a fan of Waymo’s and use FSD but will not believe in their taxi product - they’re too far behind Waymo. I don’t think they will gain the regulatory traction they’ll need especially after pissing off every democrat and their mayors and city councils.

    • adastra22 4 days ago

      Electric cars, maybe. Tesla is valued much larger than the rest of the auto industry combined though.

      Humanoid robots? Ain’t nobody made the business case for that. It is pure vibes.

      • johnfn 4 days ago

        Are you seriously saying there is no business case for humanoid robots?

      • parineum 4 days ago

        Tesla is valued at more than the auto industry because they are doing more than the entire auto industry.

        Honda is going to come out with a new Civic next year. It's going to look like the old Civic.

        Tesla is trying to create self driving taxis to make the rest of the auto industry obsolete.

        If you think that can happen, they should be worth more than the rest of the industry.

    • themafia 4 days ago

      > These are very much things of the future.

      I thought it was hyperloop. I thought it was suboribital taxis. I thought it was underground taxis. I thought it was self-driving semi trucks. Or was it solar roofs? Or powerwall? Wait weren't we supposed to be on the moon again right now?

      He's a bullshitter. Yea, he picks good targets, but he is entirely full of shit. The market just does not reflect this. He should have been golden parachuted onto a yacht years ago.

      • karel-3d 3 days ago

        To his credit he also delivers, sometimes.

        X kind of works. XAi kind of works. You can say it is all kind of broken but it works. People predicted X will collapse just a few months ago!

        StarLink is really popular now, and it didn't exist few months ago.

        He can still do things. People are betting on that.

        Now if you ask me, Tesla is still his biggest moneymaker and collapse of Tesla sales will be catastrophic for his empire.

        • bhouston 3 days ago

          > X kind of works.

          It is less popular and makes less money than when he acquired it, and that is ignoring the fact that it is a cesspool of racism now.

    • jeltz 4 days ago

      Tesla's sales are standing still in a growing market. Are they GameStop? Maybe not, but they still require a major shift or their competitors will leave them behind in the dirt.

    • jmyeet 4 days ago

      The only thing keeping Tesla afloat currently is tariffs and restrictions on far cheaper and far better foreign alternatives. That's not a solid foundation. It's certainly not a trillion dollar company.

      The dam is breaking. We have Canada lowering tariffs and agreeing to allow the import of Chinese EVs (limited, at least to start with) and the US administration goes off on Canada for doing it because they know what it means: crumbling American influence.

      South America, Africa and Asia are likely forever lost to Tesla. And European sales are tumbling.

      The supercharger network will maintain some inertia for some time but only for so long.

      You can see this in Tesla announcements about attempts to diversify. AI robots? I'll believe it when I see it. Robotaxis? Well you're reliant on FSD for that and you have stiff competition in Waymo and who knows what China is cooking up there.

      The GP was correct: it's a meme stock. It's no longer an investment in a business. It's an investment in Elon and, more generally, an investment in the administration. There's no fundamental way to predict how that goes and on what time scale. If you want to gamble, gamble. But gamgling is what it is. And, just like Twitter, I guarantee you the people at the top won't be left holding the bag.

    • jojobas 4 days ago

      Tesla's valuation is not related to their production of cars or robots.

      • bdangubic 4 days ago

        refrigirators then? some other household appliances? what exactly is “thing de jour” tesla is today?!

    • julianeon 4 days ago

      This was true when Tesla was primarily in the market of making electric cars. It is not true if their business is humanoid robots: that's squarely meme stock territory.

    • ulfw 4 days ago

      They are making no robots.

      What robots are they making?

      Where can you buy one? What does it do?

    • coffeebeqn 3 days ago

      They are making things but the case for them being worth an order or magnitude more than a normal EV company is getting weaker by the day

    • pm90 4 days ago

      tesla is not making robots.

    • gcr 4 days ago

      The current administration is “rejecting the idea of electric cars out of stubbornness or politics.” See: Trump moving to withhold funding for EV chargers, terminating EV mandates and government support, etc. I don’t know what Musk is thinking by supporting this administration so steadfastly as they work hard to undermine his own efforts and initiatives.

      • aaronbrethorst 4 days ago

        I'm not making any specific assertions about what's in Musk's heart. I can draw some conclusions from his behaviors, actions, and words, but that's neither here nor there.

        I will say, though, that there is a longstanding tradition, certainly in the United States, of an in group hurting their own material interests to deprive an out group of that same thing. https://www.marketplace.org/story/2021/02/15/public-pools-us...

      • dylan604 4 days ago

        Musk got what he needed at the expense of losing some tax incentives for his customer base. He was able to shut down government investigations into him/his companies. That alone should have been worth quite a salary bump.

    • direwolf20 4 days ago

      BYD makes electric cars. Not sure if Trump will let you import them.

      • nancyminusone 4 days ago

        Nor will any American president. Detroit would collapse overnight (again).

  • sschueller 4 days ago

    You can on the betting market bet against Tesla reaching their ever moving goal posts. Those same meme stock holders are so sure that FSD will come by March that they are taking the bets.

    • Grimblewald 4 days ago

      All fun and games until people game the system. Polymarket for example will frequently just bend/ignore the truth to make specific unlikely/not real outcomes happen.

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  • shevy-java 4 days ago

    > You cannot bet against them

    I am not sure. I think buyers or potential buyers shifted their assessment of Tesla in the last, say, 1-2 years a lot.

    • epolanski 3 days ago

      Did they? It keeps going up despite no reasons for it.

  • ghtbircshotbe 3 days ago

    Game stop used its irrationally high stock price to raise money. Tesla instead has been giving away stock to make Musk richer.

  • AndreyK1984 4 days ago

    I was exactly going to shot Tesla. Is Tesla more like Elon meme ?

  • CamperBob2 4 days ago

    GME is a joke that got out of hand. TSLA is a cult that went too far.

  • sixQuarks 4 days ago

    The Elon hate is really creating a blind spot for many people here.

    You can’t just compare Tesla to a meme stock when the founder’s side gig is launching and landing orbital rockets - a feat that even the most technologically advanced nation states have failed to accomplish.

    Come on people, use a little critical thinking skills.

    • anonymars 4 days ago

      Critical thinking might ask how the valuation of company A has any relationship to the activity of a completely separate company B (planning for its own IPO)

      But I will concede the founder's other side gigs would appear to have significantly affected its sales

    • linkregister 4 days ago

      Multiple things can be true:

      1. SpaceX was an exceptionally well-executed good idea, and continues to be a leader in innovation.

      2. Tesla brought EVs to the mass consumer market and proved the profitability of EVs.

      3. Elon Musk was essential to the success of SpaceX and Tesla.

      4. Tesla now has fierce competition in the category it defined: EVs.

      5. Tesla has undergone revenue and profit reduction.

      6. While it experiences promise in alternate product lines, Tesla is not a market leader in robotics (Unitree, Boston Dynamics) or self-driving cars (Baidu, Waymo). Tesla reported profit growth in residential solar and residential power storage, but the revenues from these verticals are dwarfed by other segments.

      7. The trend over the past decades is Elon Musk being successful at innovating in underserved parts of the market.

      8. Elon Musk is not currently pursuing any underserved parts of the market.

      • bccdee 3 days ago

        And man behind the cybertruck has not earned the presumption that he has a secret plan. If it looks like things are going poorly, they probably are.

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  • raincole 4 days ago

    There is no such thing as "meme stock." It's literally just how stock market is since forever. But every generation thinks they are so special that they have to coin new terms for the oldest things.

    • adammarples 4 days ago

      That doesn't mean there's no such thing as a meme stock, that means there have always been meme stocks and we now have a consice name for it

    • wasfgwp 4 days ago

      Historically bubbles like this hardly ever lasted this long, though

cosmicgadget 4 days ago

> “If you’re interested in buying a Model S and X, now would be the time to order it.”

I can't tell if this is real and he realizes the traditional luxury brands have beaten him or if he's just using the classic rug store sales tactic.

  • jeltz 4 days ago

    Is that an international thing? There was a rug store next to where I grew up in Stockholm which had a sale because they were closing the shop from at least the early 90s until ca 2020 during covid when they closed the shop for real. There are also a couple more rug stores doing the same thing, one of them still to this day.

    • decimalenough 4 days ago

      It's an international thing, down to the neverending "Closing now fr fr" sales. There was general bemusement in Sydney when one shop notorious for this actually closed down, but only because the building was demolished to make way for a highway interchange.

      https://www.smh.com.au/business/consumer-affairs/rozelle-rug...

      In many countries, "carpet salesman" is equivalent to "used car salesman" as the least trustworthy occupation imaginable.

      • flexagoon 2 days ago

        There is a jewelry store in my country which constantly used this tactic and had a "closing soon" sale for YEARS, to the point where it became a meme associated with that specific company. Then they launched a new marketing campaign with the slogan "this time we're not closing - but our prices are as low as if we were!"

  • thorio 3 days ago

    For what it's worth: he has been saying for years, that they were only making the S and X for nostalgic reasons.

  • Tadpole9181 4 days ago

    "Buy the software-dependent product we're not going to support going forward!"

    • chihuahua 4 days ago

      Also, good luck if you ever need replacement parts.

      • FireBeyond 4 days ago

        Absolutely. Tesla's already shown significant disdain/deprioritization for replacement parts in models they're not discontinuing. After all, every part in a service warehouse is not a part going on a new car to pump the quarterly numbers (or be parked in an abandoned shopping mall).

  • diabllicseagull 4 days ago

    classic "closing-store" sale, I wouldn't be surprised if the closing phase never ended.

jmyeet 4 days ago

It seems fairly easy to find figures on how many cars Tesla has produced each quarter but, surprisingly (at least to me), it's harder to find compiled information on (for each quarter):

- Average Selling Price;

- Cars produced vs cars sold;

- How many unsold cars are in inventory. I did find this [1];

- A model breakdown of the above 2.

The reason I'm interested in this because my theory is that:

1. Sales have been shifting from the Model S/X to the Model 3/Y, which reduces average selling price and overall profit. Stopping production is really about the inventory glut;

2. Unsold inventory is going up, particularly for the Cybertruck; and

3. Tesla marketshare is collapsing in many markets due to a combination of brand collapse among the most likely EV buyers and competition from lower-priced alternatives, particularly Chinese EVs in developing markets.

So what exactly is propping up this company at an above $1T market cap?

[1]: https://electrek.co/2025/06/17/tesla-tsla-inventory-overflow...

dabinat 4 days ago

Before Tesla came along there were a small number of EVs but they were all pretty bad because their only purpose was to serve as “compliance cars” in states like California so automakers could sell more gas cars. (See the documentary Who Killed the Electric Car? for more on this.)

So Tesla deserves credit for building the first electric cars that people actually wanted to buy. They also deserve credit for building the largest and most reliable charging network - a key factor in making electric car ownership more feasible.

But they’ve made a lot of poor decisions recently and all the money and power went to Elon’s head. I think it was beneficial to the world for Tesla to exist and do that important work early on, and now it’s beneficial to the world for the company to die.

  • WorldMaker 3 days ago

    The sequel Revenge of the Electric Car is a very interesting follow up, especially now with hindsight. It followed the stories of the Tesla Roadster, Nissan Leaf, and Chevy Volt all in about the exact same time period and stages of development.

    Of those, the Leaf is the only model that has continuously existed since then, and from the documentary there is a sense of that. GM admits the Volt was a stepping stone and not the final product. Tesla's part of the documentary involves a lot of trials and tribulations and even Tesla seeming unsure about their manufacturing problems. (Though the documentary itself spins a hopeful tune.)

    Of the figures in the documentary the most prescient seems to be Carlos Ghosn, then in charge of Renault-Nissan. He very much insisted that EVs weren't just the future, they were the scramble for the present. Renault took that message to heart and seemed to be the side that won it in the messy divorce that also eventually wound up with Ghosn getting charged for treason and embezzlement in Japan. Which is an incredible and weird story on multiple levels and maybe the documentary makers will get a chance to include that in a third movie for the series.

sebastian_z 3 days ago

A genuine question, what are the use cases for Tesla's Optimus robots? Are they consumer products that help with household chores, industrial robots for warehouses or manufacturing, a play toy, something else?

  • palmotea 3 days ago

    > A genuine question, what are the use cases for Tesla's Optimus robots? Are they consumer products that help with household chores, industrial robots for warehouses or manufacturing, a play toy, something else?

    Convincing investors to buy and hold Tesla, because of the vague promise of some great technological innovation being just around the corner. Electric cars and partially automated driving don't serve that purpose anymore.

  • ozten 3 days ago

    They are one of several memetic devices which keep Tesla’s stock price in orbit, untethered from reality.

  • blinding-streak 3 days ago

    They are a financial engineering product with limited real world utility, in an attempt to keep the company solvent.

  • WarmWash 3 days ago

    >A genuine question, what are the use cases for Tesla's Optimus robots?

    A longer horizon promise of multi-trillion dollar wealth generation for Tesla.

    As the whole robotaxi thing is starting to fizzle, Elon has quite notably talked more and more about how actually Optimus is the true gem of Tesla.

  • root_axis 3 days ago

    If a use case emerges it will have to be industrial or commercial. The power and maintenance constraints for a robot like that make it pretty impractical for home use.

  • testing22321 3 days ago

    If they actually work (and I’m not saying for one second they will), they’re intended to be all those.

    I have no doubt there will be many tens of millions of them, it’s just a question of when. 5 years? 10? 50?

  • [removed] 3 days ago
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bob1029 4 days ago

I think Tesla would make way more sense if they got out of the car part of the business. Serving the consumer market directly is very expensive.

Their electronics, batteries, motors, etc., are world class. Packaging this up into something a partner can use to build actual cars could have less risk. An electric motor or battery can propel many kinds of automobile. They tend to keep their value better when stored in this format too. The moment everything is integrated into a car, things get very bad very quickly unless you're selling Ferraris or Lamborghinis.

  • notahacker 4 days ago

    That would be lower margin and narrower moat even if they had the partners lined up and didn't have a valuation based on the assumption one day the car everyone would use would be a Tesla.

  • WorldMaker 3 days ago

    You can compare the market cap of say GM (automaker) to Bosch (massive automaker supply chain and logistics company) to get a sense of why that sort of pivot would probably not be appreciated by the market. Supply chain companies are usually considered "lesser" companies.

  • flakeoil 4 days ago

    > Their electronics, batteries, motors, etc., are world class.

    This was maybe true 5-10 years ago, but not today.

  • 2OEH8eoCRo0 3 days ago

    They don't make their own battery cells they are an integrator of third party cells.

SilverElfin 4 days ago

Feels a lot like giving up. I guess this is why there is such a strong change in the Tesla messaging, to Robotaxis and robots. But maybe this is inevitable. The cars being made in China are pretty amazing and I don’t think it is possible for American or European companies to compete.

  • reactordev 4 days ago

    We outsourced it and it would take us 10 years to retool and rebuild that kind of capability. No one wants to take that kind of investment on.

  • stackghost 4 days ago

    The narrative from Musk cultists has been "Tesla isn't a car company, it's a bet on $excuse_du_jour" for at least a year and a half.

    • neets 4 days ago

      I am surprised that nobody here is talking about grid energy storage, they basically invented that business vertical. It's about 13% of their revenue.

    • jbm 4 days ago

      Certainly longer than that. I actually thought Tesla as an energy company made sense — sadly just an excuse to buy and shelve solarcity.

apparent 4 days ago

Interesting that they're cutting S/X but keeping the Cybertruck. Whatever metric they're using (revenue, profit, units, etc.) that led them to cut the S/X would surely have similar numbers for the Cybertruck, if not worse.

  • protastus 4 days ago

    The metric for the Cybertruck is the impact to Elon's ego. Nothing about this project is rational.

    • apparent 4 days ago

      The only rational reason I could come up with is that the pool of potential Cybertruck buyers is not as saturated as for S/X, which have been around for quite a while.

  • numpad0 4 days ago

    Painted metallic chassis of a car is always dipped in car sized acid baths and primer baths. Dipping the whole cars held on a carriage is the only way it's done, anywhere, for any brands, using any metals, even many Ferrari, as well as with many classic car restoration projects. Your cars will be competing with brand new 1960s Fords and Mazdas if you were not doing it in terms of corrosion resistance - unless, I'm guessing, you're making DeLoreans and Cybertrucks.

  • snek_case 3 days ago

    Part of it is they wanted that factory space at Fremont for the Optimus production line. That's because the Optimus team is located there, in Silicon Valley.

    • apparent 3 days ago

      Wondered about that also. Seems like a really big decision to cut off the S and X though! Will they have something else to offer customers who want something more than a Y?

      • snek_case 3 days ago

        There is the Model YL now in China, which is longer and has 3 rows of seats. Apparently they're also about to release a Model YL+.

        Now that they are going away, there's maybe an opportunity to produce some more premium 3/Y models. Before now, they couldn't make the 3/Y too premium because they had to distinguish them from the S/X and keep them in a distinct price bracket.

eco 4 days ago

Elon's $1T tranches are mostly based on market cap, right? Switching from just a carmaker to a "physical AI" company could be all he needs to convince the stock market to ignore Tesla's declining profits and raise the market cap even higher.

  • bdangubic 4 days ago

    he’s done it time and time again and I don’t see him failing this time either.

    • aunty_helen 4 days ago

      The market for humanoid robots hasn’t been established like the market for $40,000 personal transport.

      Saying that, I wouldn’t be too surprised if robotaxi replaces 90% of taxis and Ubers in the next 5-7 years.

      But yea, stepping from sinking raft to the next…

      • bdangubic 4 days ago

        > Saying that, I wouldn’t be too surprised if robotaxi replaces 90% of taxis and Ubers in the next 5-7 years.

        How about we start with 0.00076% first before we start throwing insane numbers like 90% (chance of which happening are in-line with me marrying Beyonce)

      • jeltz 4 days ago

        Potentially in a few cities with high cost of living and nice weather, but certainly not worldwide. Not even the best can handle bad weather yet.

      • kccoder 4 days ago

        > I wouldn’t be too surprised if robotaxi replaces 90% of taxis and Ubers in the next 5-7 years

        I'd bet a kidney that doesn't happen.

46493168 4 days ago

So is the new roadster just not happening?

  • csa 4 days ago

    Tesla designer I know said that it’s not something that anyone is currently working on.

    As such, my guess is “not any time soon”.

  • testing22321 4 days ago

    On the earnings call Elon said

    “we’re hoping to debut [next gen roadster] in April, hopefully. It’s gonna be something out of this world.”

    (I’m just the messenger, don’t shoot me)

nkotov 3 days ago

I know that the Model S platform is old but for me it was always seen as a halo car. I've owned three of them and I really wished they would release a completely redesigned S version.

  • m463 3 days ago

    I think this is where someone says "you're not the target market"

    I thought the same thing about the (usable, upgradable) mac pro, but then they came out with the trash can mac pro 2013.

nunez 4 days ago

This is sad in that I was serious about finally getting one in two to three years (We have two Model 3 LRs already), but is fantastic in that no other car interests me and I now don't have this hyper materialistic goal distracting me.

If Tesla completely exits automotive and decides to license their FSD tech (or someone else catches up), then I'll probably just get whatever the equivalent of a Bolt is then with that and premium sound.

And they just might, too. Recall that the EV tax credit went away this year along with regulatory credits to other auto OEMs, which was a huge part of their business. This combined with the Cybertruck (unsurprisingly!) missing sales targets is problematic.

  • rconti 4 days ago

    Wait, an S? Why? I've got a 3 LR too and.... I just can't say anything about the extraordinarily long-in-the-tooth S excites me. Usually something is desirable when it's new, then the desirability fades as the product ages and other new, hot things come onto the market.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't generally lust after EVs, but I am looking forward to the R3X....

    • nunez 4 days ago

      Bigger battery, larger center console and the cabin is slightly more premium. Not $76k premium but moreso than the 3. I also really like the yoke.

      However, the 3 is lighter, has better headlight clusters, the light accent inside of the cabin (that I thought the S was getting, but I guess not), and a marginally better sound system.

      • rconti 3 days ago

        Got it. Yeah, the headlights and sound system on my (2018) 3 are AMAZINGLY good, especially (now) for the age. I drove a 2017 S fairly regularly-- so it's a first year (?) of the refresh, but pretty dated now. The sound system is abysmal (I'm sure it's the low end option) and the car generally feels less cohesive.

        The yoke and button turn signals would be a deal breaker for me, but to each their own.

    • baggachipz 3 days ago

      We're all going to need to buy some R2's if we want the R3X to become a thing. I have my reservation!

  • lavezzi 4 days ago

    > This is sad in that I was serious about finally getting one in two to three years

    Couldn't have said it better

  • niek_pas 3 days ago

    This is slightly off topic but what kind of living situation requires three cars? Polyamorous family?

    • senordevnyc 3 days ago

      I have multiple friends who have 6+ cars. To be fair, they're pretty well-off (mid six figure income), but one for example:

      - Husband Tesla daily driver - Wife Bronco daily driver - Truck to pull their boat - Campervan for outdoor adventures - Older car for teenager to drive - 90s convertible for summer fun

      • niek_pas 3 days ago

        I’m guessing this is in the US? Do you think there’s a number where they would go, “too many cars”?

    • quesera 3 days ago

      Any of a dozen common situations, but probably the most common is having children who reach driving age.

thelastgallon 3 days ago

Coming up next: Tesla to end production of all cars and sell only NFT/Crypto with pictures of Cybertruck going to the moon/mars. This is the only company which provides Speculation as a Service. With a complete monopoly on SPaaS, the market cap will skyrocket to $20 Trillion. Elon will be given Nobel peace prize for saving mankind from itself as well as physics.

  • el_nahual 3 days ago

    There is in fact one person who has won both the Nobel Peace prize and a hard-science one:

    Linus Pauling. Chemistry 1954, peace 1962.

formvoltron 4 days ago

Tesla's secret weapon will be the dyson sphere. Probably complete within 2.. 3 years maximum.

shawn_w 4 days ago

No more S3XY lineup of models? I'm surprised Musk was okay with breaking that up.

eastbound 2 days ago

Tesla’s models, S 3 X Y, meant “Sexy”, especially since the logos were written in this order in the menu bar of their website, which is also their order of creation. What are they going to do with “3Y… ?”

bayindirh 4 days ago

The elephant Tesla mocked has run, and stomped over them. Now there comes the pivot.

While "The old auto establishment" is not a benevolent structure, they proved that experience is something earned with time and doing things. Corporate knowledge and memory is real, and you can't beat it with brute force.

They started the change, but they failed to keep up with the pace. Also hubris, greed and monies.

  • uejfiweun 4 days ago

    I don't really get this take... not when Tesla is by a wide mile the world's most valuable automaker. How does Tesla ending production of the S and X equate to the old auto establishment "stomping over them"?

    • tzs 3 days ago

      In terms of actually selling cars Tesla is around #15 by annual unit sales and around #11 by annual sales in dollars.

      Toyota sells more cars in a year then Tesla has sold ever.

    • bayindirh 4 days ago

      Worth related statistics doesn't mean anything in the realm of hard engineering. I completely look from the point of "what the companies are doing tech-wise".

      When Tesla came about, they were distinctively different. A different chassis, a different weight distribution, completely different dynamics. Since they started with a blank slate, their cars were greenfield projects, and they correctly took note of the pitfalls, and avoided them.

      On the other hand, avoiding past pitfalls or remedying them doesn't make you immune from the future ones, and doesn't mean the other companies can't learn, too. This is where they made the mistake.

      They overpromised (esp. with the Autopilot thingy) and underdelivered massively on that front, and while they "made" the software-defined-vehicle, they underestimated the problems and behaved like the problems they face are as simple as configuring a web service right. This is what slowly broke them. They also underestimated hardware problems of the car (like using consumer grade parts in the critical parts of the hardware. Remember wearing down flash chips and bricking cars?)

      Because while car is software defined now, it's also an "industrial system". It has to be robust. It has to be reliable, idiot-proof even. Playing fast and loose with these things allowed automakers to catch them, maybe slowly but surely.

      Because, "the old automakers" has gone through a lot of blood, sweat and tears (both figuratively and literally), and know what to do and what not to do. They can anticipate pitfalls better then a "newbie" carmaker. They shuddered, sputtered, hesitated, but they are in the move now. They will evolve this more slowly, but in a more reliable and safer way. They won't play that fast, but the products will be more refined. They won't skimp on radars because someone doesn't believe in them, for example.

      Not everything is numbers, valuations and great expansions which look good on quarterlies, news, politics, and populists. Sometimes the slow and steads wins, and it goes for longer.

      Physics and engineering doesn't care for valuations. They only care about natural laws.

      This is what I'm seeing here.

      • uejfiweun 4 days ago

        Thank you for the explanation. I guess the thing I don't understand is what exactly the problems are that you are seeing. We've all heard the stories of wooden parts in initial production runs of Tesla models, sure. But it does seem like they iron out these kinks over time. Maybe I'm biased because I'm in the bay area, but it seems like every 3rd car you see on the highway is a Tesla, and lots of my coworkers speak very highly of theirs that they own. It just doesn't seem to me like there is actually a quality issue here?

        If anything, ending production of SX and giving more focus to 3Y would probably increase the quality of those models, I'd imagine.

        If you're pointing to Autopilot / camera-only as the main transgression here, yeah I'll agree that they have definitely overpromised, but it doesn't really seem to me like the lack of a L5 system is actually a deal-breaker for anyone, because from what I hear they are just damn good cars anyway.

jsight 4 days ago

It is sad, but big sedans do not sell well and the X really needed to be replaced with something completely different. There are now several other 3 row EV SUVs competing with it, and even low volume ones (eg, R1S) outsell it easily.

Don't be surprised if something else takes its place as they do need something larger than Y and less expensive than X was.

shevy-java 4 days ago

I think ever Elon made some strange moves (the chainsaw image, mass-firing people at DOGE and elsewhere or the right-arm gesture) people question more why they should give money to where he is associated with. Tesla suffered from this, in addition to the design becoming awkward compared to older models.

danw1979 3 days ago

> Tesla is developing Optimus with the aim of someday selling it as a bipedal, intelligent robot capable of everything from factory work to babysitting.

“Full Automated Parenting”. You win a Darwin award on behalf of your kids if you fall for this shtick.

  • DalasNoin 3 days ago

    These robots give of a kind of dark vibe to me, especially with everything going on in his AI company. How long until one of them kills someone? I'd prefer a home robot that can't kill me (like something that is passively safe).

  • dlisboa 3 days ago

    Elon Musk is already doing that kind of parenting, so I can see how he likes it.

cmoski 4 days ago

> Tesla is developing Optimus with the aim of someday selling it as a bipedal, intelligent robot capable of everything from factory work to babysitting.

I did not look forward to the news articles about robots accidentally dropping or squashing babies.

Ekaros 4 days ago

I can get them ending products. That is natural cycle. But what should be worrying is that they have not already introduced at least one model that replace either one. It looks like real stagnation which in long term will kill the company.

shanehoban 3 days ago

Hard to believe, but it's almost 10 years since they announced the new Roadster

xnx 4 days ago

I'm almost surprised they didn't end model 3 production too. Benefit would be much smaller since 3 and y are already so similar.

anon_anon12 4 days ago

I can imagine Musk selling these very models with AI slapped onto them and call it revolutionary

mrcwinn 4 days ago

I’m a little sad (nostalgic?) about this decision. Model S is a truly historic vehicle.

baron816 4 days ago

> converting Fremont factory lines to make Optimus robots

I’m very bullish on humanoid robots, but this seems absolutely batshit insane to me. These things are no where near ready for full scale production.

  • wombatpm 4 days ago

    If the can walk and randomly fire teargas and bullets into crowds of protesters they could replace half of ICE right now.

    • sawjet 4 days ago

      This would only replace a small fraction of ICE, and only in states that don't cooperate with federal law enforcement officers.

      • senordevnyc 3 days ago

        only in states that don't cooperate with federal law enforcement officers

        Courts have consistently ruled that state and local jurisdictions are not legally required to cooperate with federal law enforcement.

  • ocdtrekkie 4 days ago

    Elon Musk says something absolutely insane on the weekly. Almost none of it actually happens.

    • mrcwinn 4 days ago

      That’s just nonsense, of course. Almost everything he says happens. It rarely happens on time.

      • malfist 4 days ago

        Almost everything he says happens? Thats pretty far from the truth. Isn't Tesla still embroiled in a legal tussle over "full self drive"? What about the $30k model 3? What about the $200/kg to space?

        He has very little connection to the truth. He's a hypeman and a conman

      • browningstreet 4 days ago

        On a scale of “happens” on one end to “doesn’t happen” on the other, he has a few “happens” that Elon fans will try and anchor against the weight of the enormous load down at the “doesn’t happen” end.

      • etchalon 4 days ago

        A few of the things he says will happen, happen. Many of them happen late.

        Most of what he says will happen never happens, but people point to the few things that did happen, but were late, and say, "This too will happen."

Havoc 3 days ago

Tesla must be in serious trouble given recent erratic moves

insane_dreamer 4 days ago

X sure, but the S? it was the best in the lineup

why not kill the cybertruck instead?

  • rhplus 4 days ago

    The S is simply too expensive. People in the market for $100K+ sedans/coupes are gonna perceive more curb appeal from a Mercedes, Audi, BMW or Porsche.

    Tesla crashed the allure of its brand by lowering the price point of the Y and 3. The X and S aren’t different enough to attract $100K+ purchasers.

    (It’s one reason why Toyota and other brands use different marks like Lexus for their high end offerings).

  • aglavine 4 days ago

    Roadster will replace S

    • driverdan 4 days ago

      The same vaporware Roadster that was supposed to come out years ago and that Tesla has not shared any updates on?

yalogin 3 days ago

Looks like they are not selling the larger vehicles at all, so why not kill the truck too? It’s god awful and a flop. Ego? Or thy want to try to revive it?

What they are really signaling though is with EVs they are not able to differentiate between the higher and lower cost models enough to show value to the higher end models. This is a huge failure IMO. Model S was the OG car that really was looked up to when it launched. It did have them luxury image, by not matching the build and interior of the car to the image Tesla really dropped the ball. Now the S is seen as inferior to the other luxury cars in that price range and so it’s becoming tough for Tesla to differentiate between the 3 and S.

This actually brings up the larger question, does musk care about cars at all at this point? Or does he just want to move on to robots? Feels like his heart is not on the cars.

nusl 4 days ago

FSD will launch next year, of course. Just like every year.

antonyh 4 days ago

Any other car company would create an S / X MkII.

  • cesarvarela 3 days ago

    Yup, and most are dying and getting bought by Chinese capital.

boondongle 3 days ago

I just hate that what's actually going on with this company is so buried between Musk's bs, and people hate Musk so much that they spew bs as well. Seems to be just "pick your liar" with this company.

X going away probably isn't surprising given sales dynamics. More people would tend to opt for the cross-over or sedan. The model S is a little more shocking since it was always niche, but honestly Tesla doesn't have the trim to be priced like that and I suspect in order to get from where they're at to BMW/Audi etc., just isn't where they want to invest their money.

This definitely feels like an "oh no, people stopped buying" pivot but the moves themselves make sense.

varjag 4 days ago

So essentially down to making one car huh.

mdavid626 4 days ago

So many Tesla/Musk haters around here.

  • flakeoil 4 days ago

    People are just being rational and pragmatic.

    • mdavid626 3 days ago

      It’s always funny to me that hating is fine if the person justifies it by some reason, but it’s generally not accepted, when that person doesn’t care about the reason.

      “Stop the hate”, but of course only if it’s not me hating. Because that hate is valid and justified.

    • groundzeros2015 3 days ago

      People are losing money and a product they liked because they imagine disliking it hurts an individual they don’t like.

      This is a lose/lose enemy centered mindset, and a weird personification of a corporation.

    • sidcool 3 days ago

      How so?

      • flakeoil 3 days ago

        They say Tesla cars are not better than any other EV nowadays. They say the Tesla stock is overvalued. They say the Tesla robot will likely not be a super hit in terms of sales.

        I don't see it as hate. It's quite pragmatic views.

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