Comment by dfajgljsldkjag 4 days ago
This looks like it will help a lot of students and families who are on a budget. If you can just plug your phone into a screen you do not need to buy a separate laptop anymore. The browser extensions are the most important part because that is what makes a computer useful. I am glad to see they are thinking about this.
Actually many ridiculously expensive "flagship" smartphones do not have DisplayPort and some do not have even USB 3.
The chances to find DisplayPort in what nowadays have become medium-price smartphones, i.e. $500 to $600, are about as good as finding DisplayPort in a "flagship".
Resell the 8GB of RAM and buy an even better phone then? That's 150 euros of value right there.
Then use the money on a reputable second hand store to buy a used S20 5G 128GB for 150 euros, or a S22 128GB for 145, maybe an S21 Ultra 5G 256GB for 139, and you've got yourself a valiant workstation already (Samsung DeX works great out of the box, no need to wait for Google here). I can also find an S20+ 5G 128GB for 75 euros with display damage (but that doesn't matter when you hook it up to a monitor).
On another website I can find an S20+ 5G with cracks in the edges of the touch screen for 50 euros. That's 12GiB of RAM, 128GiB of storage, a 3200x1440p@120Hz screen and 5G connectivity built in. You're gonna need a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard (that's like what, 5 euros?) to hook it up to the TV but then you're good.
Why buy a used phone that will stop receiving updates, can't be fixed or upgraded and can't run whatever you want on it when you can use a real computer instead?
Old computers also stop getting microcode updates fairly quickly.
This is a real issue and I don't know why you got downvoted
It heavily depends on where you live, but plenty of poorer areas that never had much desktop computer penetration because of affordability are going app-first. Richer countries are going app-first for things like banking and government ID too, because the security situation with locked-down phones is a lot better than on the desktop where FreeFortniteRobloxUpdate.exe can drain your savings without you ever noticing it.
You're going to need a phone anyway. Might as well save some money by not having to get a laptop for doing your taxes once a year.
Most normal people don't really care about Google's walled garden. That's a tech person thing. I wouldn't do it, but none of the people who don't have a favourite Linux distro care about any of this.
>Might as well save some money by not having to get a laptop for doing your taxes once a year. Most normal people don't really care about Google's walled garden. That's a tech person thing.
Most "normal people" don't use their phones hooked to their TVs as desktop computers. It's a very niche scenario.
They use their old laptop or tablet from school, university or hand-me-down from parent/relative for that task, since we're going with your assumption of living in a rich country where access to cheap hardware is abundant and 50 Euros is a very basic dinner for 2, so unlikely for people's livelihoods to be threatened by skimping 50 bucks once in their lifetime on some personal computing device besides their phone.
And in the specific case of living in a rich country, you might not even need to spend that 50, since I am yet to meet anyone who in case of need, can't just get a old computer for virtually free as hand-me-down from parent/friend/relative where it's collecting dust, if you just need a PC to do your taxes once a year. It's a lot more realistic scenario than people hooking up phones to TVs to do their taxes.
That's a nicely thought out setup, but why would other people want to do that hassle, instead of just getting a cheap laptop, which is what most people do?
You're making up niche scenarios for the sake of winning an argument, but you don't daily drive, you don't dog-food yourself, they're only good as concepts on paper, but not in practice.
The market for people buying obsolete phones to connect to their TV as their daily driver workhorse computers is insanely small, even on quirky HN let alone outside this bubble. So who do you think you are convincing/converting with this?
Like the most popular Androids are Samsungs and Samsung has been shipping DEX on their flagships since for-ever, and how many of their users actually use it? Or how many buy them just for that feature alone? You haven't discovered an untapped market here that will replace PC/laptops for most average people.
A 2-3 generation old pixel on the second hand marker is not expensive at all though.
And you easily add a mouse/keyboard just fine to it.
>A 2-3 generation old pixel on the second hand marker is not expensive at all though.
Sure but at around 300 bucks is still way over 50 bucks.
And even if you get a used Pixel 8, having separate phone and computer adds a priceless layer of redundancy and flexibility.
If someone steals my phone, I don't want to also loose my work PC with it.
I'm right there with relating to this mindset, however, I recently (in the past 2 weeks) got to experience restoring a new phone from backup without the old one present, and it's becoming essentially a non-issue. I can't think of a single thing that wasn't restored from cloud backup.
Isn't Pixel 10 the first one with fully supported desktop mode?
I remember I was very confused when buying a Pixel 7 to replace my (then 3 year old) Huawei P30 Pro, and the inferior camera + lack of desktop mode made it feel like a net downgrade.
I use it on my Pixel 8 Pro too It's a toggle in Developer options, Local Desktop.
According to Google's help site, no Pixel has a desktop mode (like you can find at Motorola, Samsung and others).
The latest Pixel models have DisplayPort, but their operating system only provides screen mirroring or app window mirroring on an external monitor. Unlike Pixel, the phones with a true desktop mode can display multiple windows on the monitor, and presumably they can have a selectable resolution for the monitor. I assume that for screen mirroring the monitor is used at the same resolution as the phone screen, i.e. either 1080 lines or only slightly more.
Moreover, while the help site states that DisplayPort exists in Pixel 8 and newer, Google does not bother to advertise the existence of this feature in its online shop, where there is no mention about this in the phone specifications.
Old pixels don't have HDMI output, I learned it the hard way when the screen of my Pixel 3a died.
Only pixel 8 and up have DP. So 2 generations old. I guess soon it will be 3rd gen.
The moto g100 is a good example of a midrange phone with decent specs, including video output. It launched at $400, and can be bought for around $200 these days.
It has a Snapdragon 870, 8gb RAM, 128gb storage, a microSD slot, headphones jack, and a big enough battery to last 2 days. It's a little chunky, and it's not waterproof, but beyond that it's just about everything I ever wanted in a phone.
Motorola, of course, has already abandoned it. But it still gets up-to-date Android via Lineage OS and other community made ROMs.
How did they abandon it? It release october last year according to google.
>but beyond that it's just about everything I ever wanted in a phone.
I get that, but none of this answers my question of why people should use that to a TV, instead of a PC, other than to flex? It really isn't more practical, nor saving you money and you're still limited to the apps of android ecosystem rather than the windows/linux one.
> How did they abandon it? It release october last year according to google.
Oh, geez, I didn't realize they abandoned it so hard they even recycled the name! I was referring to the 2021 g100: https://m.gsmarena.com/motorola_moto_g100-10791.php - it looks like the 2025 recycle lacks video output :/ https://m.gsmarena.com/motorola_moto_g100_5g_(china)-14228.p...
As for why anyone should do it, I'm not really arguing that anyone should. I was just trying to point out that it's more affordable than you might think. (Although it can't beat the deal you got on your laptop.)
I think it might make sense if you already have a laptop dock with a screen and a keyboard at home and at school/work, and your needs were fairly lightweight, and you really valued portability. Or as you suggested, it could just serve as a backup device in case your main laptop gets broken or whatever.
Yeah, fair enough. I actually really like the recent trend of Android manufacturers committing to 7 years of software updates, because yeah, community ROMs really aren't for everyone.
My point was more that there are affordable options if you're inclined to do a bit of tinkering.
You don't wired need display output, just WiFi. Motorola's Smart Connect desktop uses Miracast for using TVs and the like as desktop monitors as well as wired.
I got my moto g84 5G with 8/256 GB for about 170 euros new and it supports it (not wired). Seems to work fine.
USB-C is only a connector/socket - a device having a USB-C socket does not guarantee much beyond being able to plug a USB-C connector into it.
Some USB-C devices only use the port for charging for example. Others might only support USB 2.0.
Getting a display out from something with USB-C socket needs the device to support something called DP Alt Mode.
Note that cables matter too - you can have a DP alt mode enabled monitor and phone, but if you have the wrong cable it won’t work. Welcome to the future.
It is understandable that every cable doesn't have to and shouldn't support every feature. USB cables would be insaney overpriced in that case. For simple charging you don't need a high speed 40gbps cable that can connect an external GPU.
To mitigate the confusion, all simple charging cables should be universally labeled as such and all high speed cables should also have some markings that indicate the maximum speed of the cable or something similar.
> Except that android phones with display output are mostly flagships with flagship prices.
Might well be that this becomes a lot more common on cheaper phones if it becomes a popular feature though. A display port output isn't currently that useful, so it's something it makes sense to cut from budget models. But if this desktop functionality becomes popular that calculus may change.
I am pretty sure brands would rather sell you additionnal devices, like tablets or chromebook (will they be called androidbooks?) than make budget models able to do so.
Some "flagship" and higher-end-midtier phones cheap out on the USB connection. USB 2 over USB-C with USB-PD for fast charging. No video out, slow data transfers.
Maybe when desktop mode becomes more common there will be an incentive to fix the shitty USB situation.
Cheap phones probably won't really have the power to effectively multi-task so I imagine cheap models would rather disable the feature than leave the user with a bad UI.
> Except that android phones with display output are mostly flagships with flagship prices.
There are exceptions. For example, the Motorola Edge has DP Alt Mode.
https://uperfect.com/blogs/wikimonitor/list-of-smartphones-w...
Do you understand how much are 50 bucks in a third world country? I mean, Android phone is not the cheapest solution for the poor (obviously) but it helps a lot having this kind of features for a family.
>Do you understand how much are 50 bucks in a third world country?
Yes I do, no need to patronize us with that since even in 3rd world countries people have access to old computers from ewaste imports at a reasonable price, we don't all live in straw mudhuts wearing loincloths swinging from branch to branch.
Now tell me which 50 euro phone ships with display output and is readily available. AFAIK Oneplus 7T I had is the cheapest with that feature but still over 50 and official SW goes to Android 12. Not sure if flashing lineage will still keep display output feature.
Then there's the issue of availability in 3rd world countries, where it might be easier to find some scrapped Dell optiplex with a core 2 duo, or a beat up Acer from the windows 7 era for cheap at your local market versus a cheap android with display output capabilities being more of a unicorn. Sure you'll find your Pixel 8s and or Samsung S24s too, but those imports don't come cheap there, compared to the masses of lesser known cheap chinese phones but those don't have display output and their software is shit.
Plus, if you go that route of Pixel 8 as a pc, you still need the budget for an external display, mouse and keyboard and your battery will wear out much faster. So then why not get a cheap laptop which has all the peripherals?
Plus 2, old phones age very poorly performance wise, they slow down a lot due to thermal paste and battery degradation and nobody makes quality OP 7T batteries anymore to do a swap and get back to out of the box performance. What you find on Aliexpress now are fakes or poor quality clones. While a laptop is much easier to repair and maintain as parts wear out or break.
If you can't find an affordable phone with DP-Alt mode, you can get it working by getting clever.
Any Android phone with a USB port can have a dock attached with ethernet, a keyboard, and a mouse. Connect a Chromecast to any HDMI display. Cast to that display.
Then install 1) a taskbar app (there are dozens on Google Play), 2) enable freeform windows in the device and 3) cast your phone to your Chromecast.
Alternatively, even the shitty phones with just USB 2 dongles can enable their desktop mode by using DisplayLink; no DP-Alt mode necessary. Worse on the battery, but works over USB micro if need be.
The biggest hurdle is software support. For getting the display to work, there are plenty of workarounds possible.
> people have access to old computers from ewaste imports at a reasonable price,
Are you joking?
One can get super good condition Dell latitudes with 8th gen Intel with 8GB RAM and 256GB NVMe with 1 year no-questions asked warranty (and original charger) for €100. Similar ones cost 2x or 3x in India. That is not reasonable.
> don't all live in straw mudhuts wearing loincloths
No. But not everyone is earning in Bengaluru campus. Look at the typical Rapido driver.
Can you be specific which countries are you talking about?
Because you seem to be in a word fight with very vague arguments and with someone else with very vague arguments and it's not even clear you're talking about same things.
So can you be clear on:
- Which counties you're talking about? - Why are those countries important to think about in this case? - Why doesn't this feature help people from regions that can afford a mid-to-top range smartphone?
This is mistaken in a few way.
1. In 3rd world countries everyone has a phone, usually android, no matter how poor the are. Irrespective of whether or not it has desktop capabilities. So any phone purchase is already part of their baseline expenses.
2. Any desktop/laptop purchase, even if it is $1, is an extra $1.
3. The screens/keyboards/mouse again will not likely be purchased by individuals themselves. They will have “Internet cafes”, libraries, schools, etc where those screens will be provided.
It'd be really weird if extensions got enabled/disabled based on whether the USB cable is plugged into a monitor or not.
I expect the eventual production version of this will have extensions if and only if the normal Android Chrome has extensions at that time.
Yea, I very much doubt they would ever put a browser extension on this. It's funny, I feel as though reading some Google dev's response on reddit about why mobile chrome didn't have extensions was my inflection point when I started to realize they were becoming evil.
>Android Chrome not having extensions is just a build option toggle. It doesn't have extensions because Google doesn't want it to, not for technical reasons.
The leak screenshots are from the dev version of the app. It has not been confirmed to actually have extensions enabled in the prod version, which is what the parent poster was talking about. It would have been prudent to actually read the post I was replying to and the actual article, not just look at pictures.
So you need to buy a phone, a monitor, a keyboard and a mouse. And you need a desk where to put the stuff, which is not a given if you are part of a poor family with several kids.
A cheap android phone and a cheap chinese laptop with 16GB of ram is about 300 EUR where I live, and you can use it wherever you want.
How will this succeed where the Motorola Atrix failed way back in 2011?
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2011/03/the-motorola-atrix-4...
My Moto Edge 2024 has "Ready For" which is basically this still today. I plug in the USB-C cable normally connected to my work MacBook and I instantly get a full desktop experience; mouse, keyboard and sound included.
It's how I play Minecraft with my kids when they get the itch. Sometimes if I know I'm only gonna be zoning out on Youtube at night I'll use to to save a few watts too.
It can do 1440p at 120hz, all on a really affordable phone. It's nice.
I've only used it when I'm in a pinch but it's handy. Blowing up mobile apps to a larger screen and multitasking isn't ideal certainly but I've been able to handle "email job" type activities while out of pocket. That said I've never heard of anyone else who's actually used it.
What might have been...
Windows Phone was on this path ages ago, and looking really good.
I eagerly await one of two dreams (or both):
1. A phone which can seamlessly function as a desktop for my work.
2. A new clamshell Android phone ala Nokia e90, which is good enough for work stuff on the go.
This has existed for more than a decade. Even my old Samsung S10+ had this feature. It's called Samsung DeX and it is not some handicapped environment like iPad OS either, you can actually get real work done, especially if you're a software engineer.
> The browser extensions are the most important part because that is what makes a computer useful.
What year were you born? I ask not to lambast but because given infinite time, I doubt I would come to the same conclusion. To me (a 37-year old) that statement sounds like someone who grew up with Chromebooks in school
As Google's domination continues, the US and EU need to force mobile OS vendors to open up platforms for third party app installation without gatekeeping, deep menu toggles, or scare walls.
You already need a phone to pay for parking, order at residents, identify yourself with the government, etc. Two companies should not dictate essential life function interaction.
The monopoly grip on this is so tight that it's almost impossible to compete.
You can get a monstrously powerful MacBook almost new for under $500. And that includes display, keyboard, touchpad and speakers. And a whole lot more.
What makes a computer useful is the form factor (decent size screen, mouse and keyboard instead of touch controls) and having full control of the system. It has nothing to do with browser extensions.
Yeah and we’ll be forced to do this because nobody can afford computers anymore because of Ram and SSD prices because of companies like Google buying it all up at extortionist prices.
We’re going backwards by putting all of our compute back in the warehouse.
>This looks like it will help a lot of students and families who are on a budget. If you can just plug your phone into a screen you do not need to buy a separate laptop anymore.
Except that android phones with display output are mostly flagships with flagship prices.
But 50 Euros on the used market got me a retired corporate HP/Dell laptop with 1080p screen, intel 8th gen i5 quad core, 8GB RAM and 256GB NVME on which I put Linux. Way better for studying and productivity than my android phone hooked up to the TV.
It's a nice feature to have as a backup in case my laptop dies, but I wouldn't daily drive an android phone as a desktop computer for productivity.