Comment by godelski

Comment by godelski 4 days ago

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There's another way. Only a small portion of friends need to change to pull the rest of the group. Pull them to a game that runs on Linux.

Don't do it like "let's play this game because it runs on Linux" do it like "let's play this game because it's fun".

If you want to be the one to lead this change you have to do extra work. Dual boot Linux and find a game that's fun that you can do online. Find the other friend or two in your group that will do the same (at least play the game, Linux is optional but encouraged for this subset). Just play together for a bit, give it a trial run. Then when playing the other game with the larger group say "hey, so and so and I have been playing this game, you guys should play with us sometime". They don't have to install Linux, just play a new game that their friends are already playing. That's why they're there, to play games with their friends. Don't try to get them to switch to Linux, just play games with your friends. You might have a holdout but if most people move then everyone will. But if you want to do that move you have to find what works and at least one other friend to give it a trial (who won't need to do as much work as you). That's how you do it. No crazy scheme and honestly not massive amounts of work either. Just the normal process of finding new games to play with one constraint. It just seems complicated because I stated the process explicitly.

abustamam 4 days ago

I don't play a lot of online games anymore, but when I did, it wasn't just because friends were playing it. It was because it was fun, it was part of the cultural zeitgeist, it's popular, the community is fun, etc. You can't really replace something like that with just "another game," no matter how fun the other game is.

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  • godelski 4 days ago

      > It was because it was fun
    I agree. But I think there are a lot of fun games. Plenty of them on Linux.

      > it was part of the cultural zeitgeist
    This is the harder part, but we are in an age where there are a lot of games. I think you'll be surprised to see the games that do work on Linux[0]. Looking at the most played multiplayer games on Steam[1] (in order): (1) Counterstrike, (2) Dota 2, (3) Arc Raiders, (5) Terraria, (8) Grand Theft Auto, and (9) Marvel Rivals all have good proton support. What doesn't work in the top 10 are (4) PUBG, (6) Bongo Cat, and (10) EA Sports FC 26. (7) Rust supposedly works, but only on Linux supported servers (smaller user base).

      > it's popular,
    The point I'm making here is that while you may not get to be part of every cultural zeitgeist, you can still participate in the 3 most popular ones and more than half of the top 10. Frankly, most people won't be able to participate in every zeitgeist for any number of reasons (cost, hardware, restrictions, etc). But I think considering this you don't have to fear being left out.

    Maybe you're obsessed with PUBG or Battlefield and then yeah, Linux isn't going to work for you. That's okay! But looking at the numbers, for most people, they can still be a part of all the cultural excitement. It's not going to work for everyone, and that's okay! If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. But I want to make sure we can distinguish real blockers from ones Microslop and EA want you to believe in.

      > the community is fun
    I think this is less of a blocker than you might think. Honestly, in my experience smaller communities tend to be more fun. They develop their own close knit culture. You've been on HN a long time and seen it grow. Isn't that a similar reason you come here?

      > You can't really replace something like that with just "another game," no matter how fun the other game is.
    You're right, but again, I think there are fewer blockers than you think. I can't tell you if those blockers are real or not because what is a blocker comes down to you and your personal interpretations of all those variables. But if you're frustrated with Windows and the system, why not give it a try? You don't even have to switch to Linux to pressure the studios to change. Just spending more time playing games like Counterstrike or Arc Raiders than games like PUBG or Battlefield. And if you play more games like the former you make it easier for others that are thinking about making the jump. But hey, if PUBG or Battlefield is your jam and you don't want to try anything else, then no worries. You do you.

    There's one more important thing I want to bring up. I think it is important to ask "where is your line?" How much junk can Winblows shove in before you're willing to make sacrifices? Is EA installing a rootkit enough of a security concern where you won't take it? What is? You don't need to tell me what the answers are to these questions. What's important is that you yourself know where these lines are beforehand. The lines are personal and unique to you. People are going to have other lines than you and that's completely fine. I just ask you think about what conditions would cause you to make sacrifices? That way if they happen you can respond.

    [0] https://www.protondb.com/

    [1] https://steamdb.info/charts/?tagid=3859

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    • jsheard 4 days ago

      > Looking at the most played multiplayer games on Steam

      Note that this is skipping over some extremely popular games which aren't on Steam. Notably Fortnite, Roblox, League of Legends, Valorant, and everything else from Riot Games, none of which work on Linux. From the Steam examples there's also some grey areas, GTA5 singleplayer works but multiplayer does not, and Counterstrike works on official servers but not on Faceit servers, where a lot of serious competitive play happens.

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      • godelski 4 days ago

        You're right to bring up the limits, but I think you're missing what I'm saying. I'm not trying to say that everyone can and should switch. But I am saying that the costs are probably less than one might think.

        The costs of switching can only be answered at the individual level. No one can answer for you. But people can state their experiences and help you understand the costs and benefits.

        Let's make sure we can accurately understand the costs and benefits and differentiate from imaginary ones.

        I also said that you can take a stand without switching to Linux. Maybe the costs are too high for you right now. But maybe the costs of meeting up with your friends to play Dota rather than League is easy. At the end of the day the costs are due to the network effects. You can reduce those costs slowly and make it easier for others to jump ship without you needing to, which makes it easier for you to jump ship in the future if things change. The same is true for social media. Maybe you can't break from Instagram as you have too many contacts where that's your only way to communicate with them. But you can still encourage others to text you, Signal message you, or whatever. This still reduces the power of that network.

        Here's the thing: the less sticky platforms are the better it is for everyone. I'm not going to tell you that you aren't going to have to put in more effort, but I will criticize you if you think that effort is insurmountable. I will also say that this is also part of our social duty. If something like using Signal instead of Instagram to communicate with your friend because they want to is "too hard" for you, then I envy the life you have where such trivial actions are your biggest concerns. If trying new games with friends who want to try new games is "too much" for you, then I think you should question if you're an addict.

        I'm not saying you have to switch. I'm not saying you have to play certain games and not others. But you do have to be open to changing things and recognize that if you don't then you're creating a doomed self-fulfilling prophecy. If you're unwilling to have the slightest inconveniences then the enshitification and dystopia is on you. If you are unwilling to have the slightest inconveniences then you have no right to complain as you are the one preventing that change. But also, if you don't have any of those concerns of enshitification and tech dystopia then you have every right to stand your ground and not be inconvenienced. But I want to make the conditions clear. We live in a society. The society has a duty to you and you have a duty to the society. You don't just get to take and give nothing back.

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    • some_random 4 days ago

      First off, a hell of a lot more of those top 50 are unplayable. But more importantly the thing that you are ignoring is that every single one works on Windows. By choosing to use Linux you are choosing to not be able to play these games and an unknown number of future games for... what? If you only have a PC to play games with your friends, what could possibly be more important to you than the ability to play games with your friends?

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    • abustamam 4 days ago

      This isn't about me though. I game on Linux. I love it. My original reply was to this in your comment

      > It's unfortunate but at the same time if enough people switch to Linux then they'll be forced to change their ways.

      The whole point of this subthread is that companies are not going to make Linux compatible games as long as there are customers OK with installing root kits on their companies to play their games. And most gamers are ok with that line being crossed. It sucks for the rest of us, but capitalism gonna capitalism.

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      • godelski 4 days ago

        I apologize for misunderstanding your comment, but I hope mine still stands to help others recognize the issues you brought up aren't as large as some may actually believe. I agree with you, companies that abuse us, the users, want to amplify that fear. It empowers them. It's why I am encouraging anyone who reads my comment to ask themselves where that line is. Personally I'm with you, the line has already been crossed. I've made the move and don't regret it for a second. Nothing changes for the better when no one is willing to take the first step.

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        • abustamam 4 days ago

          No worries, and no I completely agree with you on all fronts.

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  • direwolf20 4 days ago

    There are lots of fun games in the cultural zeitgeist.

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thunderfork 4 days ago

The market for multiplayer games, shooters especially, is already a mess, because people don't want to play a game that doesn't have an infinite pool of players to matchmake into, or a game that doesn't have all their cosmetics, or... etc. etc.

So this ends up being easier said than done. I've had success, but that's my friend group out of however many.

Try to find a shooter with a playerbase that doesn't use EAC/etc. - it's a crapshoot, unfortunately. You've got Valve's stuff and one or two outliers, but if those don't meet your group's genre needs, you're whomped.

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rav3ndust 4 days ago

> Don't do it like "let's play this game because it runs on Linux" do it like "let's play this game because it's fun".

Indeed! i have some online and irl buddies who aren't on linux that i've got playing games like veloren with me, simply because they are good games. i've got loads of hours in games like veloren, luanti, xonotic, pokeMMO, and osu! for example lol and encourage everyone to check those games out if they're up their alley. :)

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johnnyanmac 4 days ago

You assume I have friends. Or at least, friends that care about video games.

Besides, more likely is that I leave to do my own thing, 0-1 peers joins me for a bit, then we all kinda drift away. Friendships in this era are much more ephemeral.

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  • godelski 4 days ago

    I want to step away from the conversation about Linux

    Honestly, I'm disheartened to hear this. Frankly, those don't sound like friends, or at least close friends. If a friendship can evaporate by the simple act of wanting to try another game, then it barely seems like a friendship and it seems like those will evaporate as soon as the next popular game comes about. I don't want to tell you to abandon your existing friends but I would encourage you to find friends you can have stronger bonds with. To have closer relationships. Hard truth is you need to put in work to make this happen. It doesn't matter what games you play or on what platform: everyone deserves to have deep human relationships. I really do hope you can find some friends. I hope the friendships you do have are stronger than you have conveyed because frankly, as humans, we all need close friends.

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    • johnnyanmac 4 days ago

      That's most how most of my life has been in a nutshell; it isn't limited to games. Schools,college, old coworkers. A lot of the glue comes undone the moment you need to move on. I'm a late Millenial, but the advent of social media among Gen Z gave us the ability to connect more intimately than ever over the most niche topics. But at the cost of losing the deep bonds you'd normally form then bundled with a community based on proximity.

      I've had long conversations with some former guild mates yet can't point you to a name or face. I know quite a few never even lived in my country. But things loosen up once the game shuts down or one of us needs to move on. It's neat in some ways, hollow in others.

      On the larger scale, it's why local community is also weaker than ever. No one really puts and effort to come down to community events, or they may come once or twice and never again. Those gatherings are also less frequent than ever, often once a month. You can't really form a deep bond meeting once a month. So meetups end up frustrating in their own way (at least, the tech meetup. Maybe a run club would be different).

      I've even heard notions that it's easier to find a mate than a close friend these days. I can completely believe it.

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      • godelski 4 days ago

        I'm also in my 30s so I get it. The only real advice I can give is that it just takes more work to maintain friends as we get older. I had to be the one reaching out rather than waiting for others to reach out to me.

        The other thing is recognize where friendships came from. Most of it was just being physically near people. Sitting in the same classrooms day to day. If work doesn't create that space (or isn't good enough or you want to distance from work) you need something else that does the same thing. Join a club. Set up weekly beers with your friends. Or literally anything that puts you in the same physical space with the same people, routinely. A friend of mine gets together with his gamer friends once a year and they socialize off the game too.

        The convenience of social media is also its weakness. The ease of connecting makes it just as easy to disconnect.

        Real friendships require work. That's true of any relationship. I'll tell you my friends can be annoying and exhausting, but I love them and I'll gladly put up with their shit to keep them around. After all, who else is going to put up with my bullshit? lol

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        • johnnyanmac 4 days ago

          >Real friendships require work. That's true of any relationship.

          indeed. Perhaps that is part of my frustration. Friendships can also be a 2 way street, and it can feel like I'm putting in a lot more effort than the other party when it comes to trying to form them. I don't expect 50/50 effort, but when it's 95/5, are they a friend or simply a familiar guest?

          Maybe I need to accept that the tech circles here aren't going to have that deep bond and expand. But I'll admit that the job hunt also slowed down my efforts to break out of my comfort zone.

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      • abustamam 4 days ago

        I feel your pain, as someone in their mid-30s, and also a new dad. It's trite to say that it's hard to make friends in your 30s but it really is true. Between career, family, and just day-to-day life, it's really hard to form connections that are any more than just superficial.

        What works for me is finding communities. I participate in Toastmasters, which meets every week (one meets twice a month), and it's a good way to make connections with people and get to know them better. It's also fun because there's people of many walks of life. Retirees, college students, business owners, executives, everyone in between. It's a great way to meet people I probably wouldn't have otherwise met in tech circles.

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