Comment by superkuh

Comment by superkuh 4 days ago

False. Gambling disorder exists, but it is grandfathered in. It wouldn't be accepted today. Porn addiction has no entry in the DSMV or ICD10, it is purely a made up concept advanced by for-profit companies looking to exploit people (and authoritarian governments looking to control). The same kind of groups that used to run camps to "fix" gay people.

If you think a chemical directly manipulating the biochemistry of incentive salience, making you want something regardless of it's valance, is the same as eventually liking something you watch and hear that's actually rewarding, yes, there's not much conversation to be had. Lay interpretations of this field are not very useful.

adi_kurian 4 days ago

Fair enough, I don't have any formal credentials in this field. Could you clarify a few things:

My understanding is gambling disorder was promoted in the DSM-5 in 2013. When was it grandfathered?

The WHO recognized gaming disorder in 2019. Are they captured as well?

Where should I look for a non-lay interpretation?

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superkuh 4 days ago

Gambling disorder was introduced in DSM 3 (1980) before much was known about human neurobiology under 'impulse control disorder not elsewhere classified'. Back then they even thought dopamine was a 'pleasure' chemical. And we now know it's about wanting, not liking. You may be mixing it up when it was reclassified as the DSM 4 (not 5!) did a big reorganization.
Kent Berridges' lab review articles are a great place to start to understand addiction, wanting, and liking and how they are different. But mostly importantly, how addiction works so you can see how chemical addictive substances are vastly different. https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/berridge-lab/selected-review-art...
Edit: and re: "porn disorder/gaming disorder/behavioral impulse disorders to 'screens' in general" and the behavior of the ICD re: china, see the widely cited Nichole Prause' work https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=yySl87AAAAAJ&hl=en

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- adi_kurian 4 days ago
  
  I don't follow. DSM-5 (2013) moved gambling into 'Substance-Related and Addictive Disorders.' What specifically are you saying happened in DSM-4?
  Thanks for sharing. I'll read Berridge.
  The distinction you're drawing is mechanistic. I'm not submitting a paper to a journal. Kids are scrolling until 3am, teen mental health is cratering, boomers are getting radicalized by bot farms, and democracy is being sold for pennies on the dollar. If your response is 'technically not addiction,' we're not having the same conversation.
  
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  superkuh 3 days ago
  
  This is untrue. Take it from: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519704/table/ch3.t39/ "Impact of the DSM-IV to DSM-5 Changes on the National Survey on Drug Use and Health [Internet]." In 5 they actually moved it to the 'Substance-Related and Addictive Disorders' because it was grandfathered into it's own class and really fit nowhere else in the reorganization. It shouldn't be there either but it was too late.
  You've prescribed some outcomes: I am not saying you have not personally observed these things. I am saying they are not due to addiction and that using comparisons to addictive drugs and addiction implies that people have no volition when reading things or watching things on screens instead of, say, watching them in their environment directly. That's a very dangerous claim. If you think that it's okay to claim screens can make you do things and need to be regulated like addictive drugs, we are definitely not having the same conversation. You're advocating that text and video need to be regulated by government use of force and that's really dangerous and wrong.
  I agree that the corporations pushing these propaganda machines are a huge problem. But it's not one involving addiction.
  
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