Comment by oceanplexian

Comment by oceanplexian 4 days ago

> Protesting is a fundamental human right

That doesn't include vandalism, it doesn't include blocking roads, looting, or assaulting people. What's obvious to me is that a certain class of protestors are intentionally provoking a response from the government by breaking the law. Inevitably someone is arrested, hurt, or killed, and that is used as an excuse for more protests. The protests get increasingly violent in an escalating cycle.

That process isn't exercising a "fundamental human right", it's a form of violence. If you don't agree with the Government the correct answer is to vote, have a dialog, and if you choose to protest do it in a way that's respectful to your neighbors and the people around you.

defrost 4 days ago

> a certain class of protestors

Yes, a proportionally large and significant number of local Minnesota community members of long and good standing.

> are intentionally provoking a response from the government

are reacting to excessive over reach by outsiders, directed by the Federal government to act in a punative manner.

> Inevitably someone is arrested, hurt, or killed,

This has already happened. Multiple times. As was obvious from the outset given the unprofessional behaviour and attitudes of the not-police sent in wearing masks.

> [the people aren't] exercising a "fundamental human right"

they are exercising their Constitutional rights. Including their right to free speech, to bear arms, to protest the Federal government, etc.

> the correct answer is to vote, talk to your neighbors and friends, and peaceably protest,

Which they have done and they continue to do.

See: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/01/the-neighbors-defe...

for more about the local community of neighbour loving US citizens acting in defence of their community.

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pclmulqdq 4 days ago

The main thing I see these protesters doing wrong is that they seem to freak out and fight back once they get aarrested. This is not how to deal with under-trained law enforcement unless you want to die. Get arrested, get booked, have your friends pay your bail, and then have a media circus around the court cases that result. This seems lame and takes some self-control to do, but it works really well.
Instead, people are getting killed and videos are coming out that seem very chaotic, where people with different predispositions than you can empathize with the police. If those videos were people getting arrested and pepper sprayed for speaking out and for helping each other, they would hit a lot harder for a much larger population.

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- vharuck 4 days ago
  
  >The main thing I see these protesters doing wrong is that they seem to freak out and fight back once they get aarrested. This is not how to deal with under-trained law enforcement unless you want to die.
  Actually, the less training and self-restraint an officer has, the more incentive there is for a target to do everything they can to flee or resist. If a town trusts its local police to be fair and professional, criminals are more likely to accept the offer of "Drop everything and put your hands on the ground." They trust they'll survive the arrest and avoid anything worse than a rough perp walk. But if the arresting officers are known to brutally beat and pepper spray people they detain, I would expect people to resist detainment.
  Last weekend, we saw video footage of a man executed while being restrained and with no weapon in his hands. At this point, reasonable people could believe an ICE officer trying to detain them is threatening their lives. When do self-defense laws kick in?
  
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  coderc 4 days ago
  
  Do you have an example of a person following orders and complying while being arrested, but still being brutally beaten and pepper sprayed by ICE?
  
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megous 4 days ago

Your framing places nearly all moral responsibility on protesters while treating state action as reactive and inevitable.

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quickthrowman 4 days ago

> That doesn't include vandalism, it doesn't include blocking roads, looting, or assaulting people. What's obvious to me is that a certain class of protestors are intentionally provoking a response from the government by breaking the law.

If protestors are doing this sort of thing to ICE agents, then ICE has probable cause to arrest them while they’re doing it. I don’t support people interfering or obstructing ICE, but standing 20 feet away and filming or blowing a whistle is not obstruction.

What I’ve seen is ICE agents losing their shit and shoving people because they can’t emotionally handle being observed and yelled at, both of which are legal. I would not be able to handle that either, I’d lose my shit too, but I’m not an ICE agent.

I’m sure there are protestors crossing the line too, they arrested a bunch of people for breaking windows at a hotel the other night. I just don’t see the need to add conspiracy charges if they can just directly charge them with obstruction when it happens.

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rtp4me 4 days ago

Yeah, this is what I don't get. People have the right to peacefully protest (and they should). However, once you actively get in the way of official federal policing business, you are no longer a peaceful protester. Interjecting yourself into already stressful situation will only make things worse for you.

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chimprich 4 days ago

> However, once you actively get in the way of official federal policing business, you are no longer a peaceful protester.
That is absolute nonsense. You can be a peaceful protestor whilst still inconveniencing the authorities.
Possibly the most famous non-violent protestor of all time is the unnamed man who stood in front of a column of tanks at Tiananmen Square.
Another contender would be Gandhi, who promoted civil disobedience for peaceful protesting.

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- rtp4me 4 days ago
  
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  chimprich 4 days ago
  
  > get in between a federal officer and a suspect, and hope you don't get shot
  Sometimes standing up to tyranny does require bravery. Like the protestor in Tienanmen Square. Did he get shot? We don't know.
  > Comments like your only serve to incite more violence.
  How so? We are clearly talking about the Pretti case. All the violence was from the paramilitary operatives. All Pretti did was film and stand in front of a woman who was being beaten and pepper sprayed.
  Are you saying that the populace needs to learn to submit or else more violence will be inflicted on them? And that I should stop posting my opinion in case it angers the authorities or inspires more people into nonviolent resistance? If not, please clarify.
  
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  buttercraft 4 days ago
  
  > between a federal officer and a suspect
  The "suspect" being the person standing alone who was sent flying backwards whens an officer approached and shoved with both hands? Why was that justified? Was that an "arrest" or physical assault?
  The whole thing was completely unnecessary.
  
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