Comment by epistasis

Comment by epistasis 5 days ago

96 replies

And importantly the DoJ attorneys who would be responsible for investigating g the murders resigned because they were prevented from performing the standard procedure investigation that happens after every single shooting. They were instead directed to investigate the family of the person who was shot:

https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/nyt-6-federal-prosecutor...

We are through the looking glass, folks. This will be dropped and ignored like so many other outrages unless we demand answers from Congress, and hold SCOTUS responsible for partisan abdication of their constitutional duties.

lateforwork 5 days ago

> unless we demand answers from Congress, and hold SCOTUS responsible for partisan abdication of their constitutional duties.

You can demand answers from Congress, but until a significant portion of the GOP base demands answers, they are just going to ignore your demands. As of now 39% of Americans support the administration. Also, you can't hold SCOTUS responsible, only Congress can.

  • xeonmc 5 days ago

    [flagged]

    • epistasis 5 days ago

      Currently they are attempting to strip our second amendment rights. They murdered a man in the street, from hands up to shit in the back in under 20 seconds, merely for lawful possession and in direct violation of the 2nd amendment. The President is bumbling around today mumbling "you can't bring a gun to a protest" when yes the 2nd amendment directly allows that.

      A lot of people that care a lot about the 2nd amendment saw the photo of Pretti's gun on the ICE rental car seat, and they saw a well-used, well-cared-for weapon that was clean and seen a lot time at the range. They saw that it can happen to somebody just like them.

      • Forgeties79 5 days ago

        > you can't bring a gun to a protest" when yes the 2nd amendment directly allows that.

        They conveniently forgot their excuses for Rittenhouse. Guess they all changed their mind and think he should be arrested.

        • epistasis 5 days ago

          The core belief of the Trump administration is that there are two groups: an in-group which the law protects but does not bind, and an out-group which the law binds but does not protect. --Someone far more insightful than me

      • pfannkuchen 5 days ago

        As often happens these days, I’m confused at the hysteria here.

        Police messed up and someone got killed. I feel like outrage is warranted if nothing is done about it, but after seeing the videos I’m fairly confident this won’t get swept under the rug. Will we retract our outrage when a conviction is delivered? Is there a reason we expect nothing to come of this?

    • RIMR 5 days ago

      This is what I don't understand about American authoritarians. Historically speaking, if you try to take away the liberty of Americans, they respond with lethal violence.

      Britain tried to tax Americans without government representation, and they started sending the tax man home naked and covered in tar, feathers, and third-degree burns. These stories are then taught to schoolchildren as examples of how Americans demand freedom above all else.

      If the powers that be keep doing whatever they want without consequence, eventually there will be consequences, and those consequences very well could be the act of being physically removed from their ivory towers and vivisected in the streets.

    • fsckboy 5 days ago

      according to urban dictionary, wolfenstein as a verb means

      To kill or utterly destroy a large group of enemies with an extreme overabundance of weapons and items, including throwing knives to the head, poison, stabs to the neck or back, kicks to the chest, shoves off of high ledges, multiple headshots, artillery, panzer rockets, flames, dynamite, mines, construction pliers, airstrikes, or even slamming a door into someone's chest. Wolfensteining a group of enemies requires that every kill be performed using a different method

      you are calling for extreme violence?

      • wizzwizz4 5 days ago

        According to Urban Dictionary, cat as a noun means:

        > an epic creature that will shoot fire at you if you get near it. you can usually find one outside or near/in a house. its main abilities are to chomp and scratch but they can also pounce, shoot lasers out of their eyes, be cute, jump as high as they want, and fly. do not fight one unless you are equipped with extreme power armor and heavy assault cannons. […]

        https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cat

donkeybeer 5 days ago

That's straight up corrupt third world country stuff.

  • xnx 5 days ago

    "Sh*thole countries" was projection

    • e40 5 days ago

      Everything is a projection with these people. Including the pedophilia.

  • refurb 5 days ago

    How is it corrupt? The DA chose to resign, they weren't forced out.

    • epistasis 5 days ago

      They were prevented from following just policy, and were being forced to perform actions that go against professional ethics, politically driven prosecutions unconnected from fact or law.

      People resigned to send the message to the public: the integrity of the office had been compromised, and the lawyers (lawyers!!) couldn't stay due to their ethics. This is a difficult thing to understand for people that lack ethics.

      • refurb 4 days ago

        "Just policy"?

        If you boss asks you to do something that is a legitimate request, and you refuse for personal reasons, that's on you.

        It is in no way "corruption".

    • donkeybeer 5 days ago

      I as someone with power over you will repeatedly force you to do an illegal and or immoral act. I have doubt you have the balls to resign rather than follow along, but if you do resign I hope you don't say you were forced out. Be honest.

      • refurb 4 days ago

        > I have doubt you have the balls t

        Reported for personal attack.

        • donkeybeer 4 days ago

          How's that a personal attack? And if it is, remove that. The rest of the argument still stands.

  • lateforwork 5 days ago

    It is going to get a lot worse. Trump's eventual goal is to send the military to all Democrat-controlled cities. Back in September Trump gathered military leaders in a room and told them America is under "invasion from within". He said: "This is going to be a major part for some of the people in this room. That's a war too. It's a war from within."

mikkupikku 5 days ago

If those shooters don't get presidential pardons, they're going to get prosecuted sooner or later. No statute of limitations for murder, right?

  • dragonwriter 5 days ago

    Presidential pardons have no impact and their liability for state-law murder charges (though federal seizure of crime scenes and destruction of evidence might, in practice.)

    • skissane 5 days ago

      Yes, but In re Neagle (1890) is SCOTUS precedent granting federal agents immunity from state criminal prosecution for acts committed while carrying out their official duties (and the act at question in that case was homicide). Now, its precise boundaries are contested - in Idaho v. Horiuchi (2001), the 9th Circuit held that In re Neagle didn’t apply if the federal agent used unreasonable force - but that case was rendered moot when the state charges were dropped, and hence the issue never made it to SCOTUS. Considering the current SCOTUS majority’s prior form on related topics (see Trump v. United States), I think odds are high they’ll read In re Neagle narrowly, and invalidate any state criminal prosecution attempts.

      • dragonwriter 5 days ago

        In re Neagle (while, unfortunately, it does not state as clear of a rule as Horiuchi on the standard that should be applied) conducts an expansive facts-based analysis on the question of whether, in fact, the acts performed were done in in the performance of his lawful federal duties (if anything, the implicit standard seems less generous to the federal officer than Horiuchi’s explicit rule, which would allow Supremacy Clause immunity if the agent had an actual and objectively reasonable belief that he acted within his lawful duties, even if, in fact, he did not.)

        But, yeah, any state prosecutions (likely especially the first) is going to (1) get removed to federal court, and (2) go through a wringer of federal litigation, likely reaching the Supreme Court, over Supremacy Clause immunity before much substantive happens on anything else.

        OTOH, the federal duty at issue in in re Neagle was literally protecting the life of a Supreme Court justice riding circuit, as much as the present Court may have a pro-Trump bias, I wouldn't count on it being as strong of a bias as it had in Neagle.

        • skissane 5 days ago

          I just realised another angle: 28 U.S.C. § 1442 enables state prosecutions of federal agents to be removed to federal court. Now, if Trump pardons the agent, does the federal pardon preclude that trial in federal court? To my knowledge, there is no direct case law on this question; there is an arguable case that the answer is “no”, but ultimately the answer is whatever SCOTUS wants it to be.

    • [removed] 5 days ago
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  • b00ty4breakfast 5 days ago

    I'll eat your hat if any of these goons ever see in the inside of a holding cell

  • mothballed 5 days ago

    That depends, the civil service has a lot of leverage because most of them cannot easily be fired. And POTUS needs the civil service to execute his policy goals so his fellow party members and possibly himself can get re-elected.

    Therefore there is considerable leverage for allied servants to form an alliance that more or less offers their allegiance in exchange for non-prosecution. I would expect especially DHS to basically become a non-functional (or even seditious) department if they prosecute those guys and they could purposefully make the president look bad by making his security apparatus look incompetent.

    • dragonwriter 5 days ago

      > Therefore there is considerable leverage for allied servants to form an alliance that more or less offers their allegiance in exchange for non-prosecution.

      Won't help if the prosecuting sovereignty isn't the one they work for (state vs federal charges.)

      Also won't work if the agency is disbanded and they are dismissed en masse before the prosecution happens.

    • DFHippie 5 days ago

      > the civil service has a lot of leverage because most of them cannot easily be fired

      Unless, as Doge showed us, you ignore the law, fire them anyway, and the SCOTUS says, "Yeah, whatever."

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  • wizardforhire 5 days ago

    But pardons only apply to federal crimes… murder is a state offense.

    • toomuchtodo 5 days ago

      Correct, state charges are mostly pardon proof and there is no statute of limitations on murder.

      • ldng 5 days ago

        So ... you're saying that this militia as every incentive to overthrow democratie so that they never get prosecuted, right ?

        See where this is going ?

      • dragonwriter 5 days ago

        Well, they are entirely Presidential pardon proof, but each state usually has its own pardon provisions. Unlikely to benefit ICE agents as a broad class in any of the places where conflicts over their role are currently prominent, though.

      • [removed] 5 days ago
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    • lokar 5 days ago

      They should charge it as a criminal conspiracy and use the state felony murder statute to go after leadership.

  • Bender 5 days ago

    [flagged]

    • bonsai_spool 5 days ago

      > cleared the Sig said "Muffled word Gun"

      The person in front said "I've got the gun, I've got the gun", and I can tell that quite clearly in the videos.

      > here antifa community organizers are escalating non stop in hopes that someone dies [...] in hopes they can radicalize people

      I think this rhetorical frame highlights how many people don't believe in protest. Expressing disdain for trampling of civil liberties is not 'escalation' any more than the curtailment of fourth amendment rights that inspire the protests.

      I am not attacking you (I believe we should all be able to express how we feel with respect to the government). I just want to highlight a reason why you may feel that this level of unrest is meant to "radicalize people".

      • Bender 5 days ago

        The person in front said "I've got the gun, I've got the gun", and I can tell that quite clearly in the videos.

        That means there is an even better version that what I saw and heard which means normies will figure out fairly quick this was not malicious intent. Perhaps malicious incompetency but certainly not an intentional execution.

        I just want to highlight a reason why you may feel that this level of unrest is meant to "radicalize people".

        I would accept that if these were just protesters, stood at the side of the road holding up signs but a number of them are far from it. They have formed military squads, dox agents and attack them at home and in their personal vehicles, coordinate their attacks between multiple groups of "vetted" agitators. They are tracking their personal vehicles and their family members. They are blocking traffic and forcing people out of their cars. At best this is an insurgency being coordinated from out-of-state agitators and at the behest of the state governor. They are egging people on to break numerous laws, obstruct federal agents, throw bricks at agents or anyone they think is an agent, use bull-horns at full volume in the ears of anyone supporting the agents. I could go on for hours regarding all the illegal shenanigans. So yeah these are people trying to radicalize others and trying to get people hurt or killed. This is primarily occurring in sanctuary cities where the government is actively encouraging their citizens to attack federal agents. That is not even close to anything that resembles protesting and is not anywhere near a protected right.

        I also blame President Trump for not invoking the insurrection act and curtailing this very early on.

    • Bender 5 days ago

      Circling back to this, the Minnesota state police moved in and gave the violent rioters a few minutes to disperse. Those that did not have been rounded up, arrested and jailed. I have no doubt they will be released in a matter of hours but it should be peaceful for a few hours at least and the origin of these people will be documented and possibly how much some of them were paid.

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trinsic2 5 days ago

congress isn't going to do anything. All it would take is about 20 republican sentors to bring this shit to a halt. They are not doing anything, they all have blood on their hands.

At this point I think the only thing that will work is organizing a month where the nation stops spending money and going to work.