sam_lowry_ 5 days ago

Dunno about the others but Pottering has proven himself to deliver software against the grain.

  • dijit 5 days ago

    You think?

    It took us nearly a decade and a half to unfuck the pulseaudio situation and finally arrive at a simple solution (pipewire).

    SystemD has a lot more people refining it down but a clean (under the hood) implementation probably won't be witnessed in my lifetime.

    • PaulDavisThe1st 5 days ago

      anyone who thinks that pipewire - pipewire! - is "a simple solution" understands nothing about pipewire.

      don't get me wrong, i use pipewire all day every day, and wrote one of the APIs (JACK) that it implements (pretty well, too!).

      but pipewire is an order of magnitude more complex than pulseaudio.

      • herewulf 5 days ago

        As an end user hand assembling desktop services on non-Systemd distros (Artix, Devuan, Gentoo, Guix) over the years, and thus had no concern about APIs, Pipewire just works and PulseAudio gave endless trouble.

        My 0.02 bits.

        • account42 5 days ago

          As another user on Gentoo, pipewire is a never ending pain in the ass full of "magic" behavior and weird bugs. I mostly skipped pulse though so it may be simple in comparison to that.

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    • blibble 5 days ago

      yeah, the fix for pulseaudio was to throw it away entirely

      for systemd, I don't think I have a single linux system that boots/reboots reliably 100% of the time these days

      • xorcist 5 days ago

        There were dozens of other init systems that, like systemd, wasn't a shell script.

        What set systemd apart is the collection of tightly integrated utilities such as a dns resolver, sntp client, core dump handler, rpc-like api linking to complex libraries in the hot path and so on and so forth that has been a constant stream of security exploits for over a decade now.

        This is a case where the critics were proven to be right. Complexity increases the cognitive burden.

      • dijit 5 days ago

        The trick is the same: use a popular linux distribution and don't fight the kinks.

        The people who had no issues with Pulseaudio; used a mainstream distribution. Those distributions did the heavy lifting of making sure stuff fit together in a cohesive way.

        SystemD is very opinionated, so you'd assume it wouldn't have the same results, but it does.. if you use a popular distro then they've done a lot of the hard work that makes systemd function smooth.

        I was today years old when I realised this is true for both bits of poetter-ware. Weird.

    • mariusor 5 days ago

      It's baffling to me that anyone can imagine pipewire has been created from scratch without any lessons learned from pulseaudio and the previous issues the audio stack on linux had, and solved, over the years. Nothing is happening in a clean room bubble, every new project stands on the shoulders of giants...

  • nacozarina 5 days ago

    LP is the Thomas Midgley Jr of Computer Science.

  • wang_li 5 days ago

    I thought he had proven that he leaves before the project is complete and functioning according to all the promises made.

  • tonoto 4 days ago

    agent Smith, the one that don't care at all about conforming to POSIX?

    "In fact, the way I see things the Linux API has been taking the role of the POSIX API and Linux is the focal point of all Free Software development. Due to that I can only recommend developers to try to hack with only Linux in mind and experience the freedom and the opportunities this offers you. So, get yourself a copy of The Linux Programming Interface, ignore everything it says about POSIX compatibility and hack away your amazing Linux software. It's quite relieving!" -- https://archive.fosdem.org/2011/interview/lennart-poettering...

  • mikkupikku 5 days ago

    Poettering gas a track record of recognizing good ideas from Apple, then implementing them poorly. He also has a track record of closing bug reports for plain and simple bugs in his software to protect his own ego, and this kind of mentality isn't a great basis for security sensitive software.

    Audio server for linux: Great idea! Pulseaudio: Genuinely a terrible implementation of it, Pipewire is a drop in replacement that actually works.

    Launchd but for Linux: Great idea! SystemD: generally works now at least, but packed with insane defaults and every time this is brought up with the devs they say its the distro packagers jobs to wipe SystemD's ass and clean up the mess before users see it.

    Security bug in SystemD when the user has a digit in their username: Lennart closes the bug and says that SystemD is perfect, the distros erred by permitting such usernames. Insane ego-driven response.

    • plagiarist 5 days ago

      He really will just close a ticket because he disagrees with how Linux works. I read about systemd sysusers and thought they would be neat for running containerized services. But Poettering doesn't like the /etc/subuid files and refuses to work with them.

      • NekkoDroid 4 days ago

        Well, he specifically doens't like the static allocation of subuids. There is a reason `systemd-nsresourced` exists.

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