Comment by rixed

Comment by rixed 7 hours ago

12 replies

Your comment is troubling. I am really struggling to understand how so many human brains routinely confuse such different things as a cultural artifact (like a language) with a violent act (a military invasion). This is disturbing to me because i believe this is the kind of mental confusion that actually makes this kind of political violence possible.

For the record, I had the exact opposite feeling when i saw that title: I was glad the poster was not feeling obliged to not mention a culture because of a war.

I'm glad you expressed your own view so candidly though, as I did myself, and would not want to discourage that. But you understand you are playing "their" game by helping erecting those fences, right?

roenxi 5 hours ago

> I am really struggling to understand how so many human brains routinely confuse such different things as a cultural artifact (like a language) with a violent act (a military invasion).

The human brain is a hyperactive pattern recognition machine and it is actually usual for it to make associations that don't hold up to intellectual scrutiny. Otherwise it'd be quite difficult to believe things that aren't true. It is expected that people will do this. The real miracle is something like the legal system where a many people have been convinced to follow an evidence- and precedent- based process rather than making decisions based on what they think it true in the moment flowing from their thoughts and feelings.

Not to excuse the behaviour, it is terrifying and generally generally harmful. But it is at least easy to understand - for any random pairing of things there is going to be a large chunk of the population who associates them without any underlying causal reason beyond that they've been spotted together once. Like the Russian language and war. Then political choices flow on from that reality.

  • mlrtime 2 hours ago

    That's why we all say it is very important to think critically and think for yourself. Always test your ideas and be open to change.

TiredOfLife 6 hours ago

It's not "mental confusion" its a lived experience for millions of people.

Russia and Russians have a long history of exterminating local languages and culture in territories they control.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification

  • mlrtime 2 hours ago

    Exterminating languages is one way to put it, progress is another.

    Languages have died throughout time, as long as the language is preserved in a book for scholarly reasons I see no issues.

    It also depends on how it's done, politically or through violence.

  • rixed an hour ago

    Oh come on!

    Every state has a long history of opressing others, I'm sure Russia did it too, but to be honest being from western Europe I have my own colonial history to come to terms with before looking at others'. What I know about XXth century Russia, though, is that at some point and in some places at least they went as far as inventing writing systems for local languages that had none so that teaching could be done in that language; so that exemple alone is enough to tell me that your viewpoint lacks nuance, to put it very mildly.

    History of civilizations is certainly interresting but this is not even the point; the point was: why should the interrest of a text from Nabokov about the Russian language be seen through the lense of some modern episode of political violence? This is obvious nonsense, yet it appears to come up frequently, sometimes, with some people. Why? And what can be done to stop the contagion before mankind revert back to clan warfare? (because if we want to look for reasons to hate each others in past or modern politics, sure enough we will get there!)

  • throwaway290 6 hours ago

    This is false.

    Colonization of eastern parts of russia involved forced conversion to christianity, violence, rape, mass murder, but not language extermination

    Even culture extermination is an exaggeration, sure some areas got forcibly "converted" to christianity (if they were unlucky to be invaded before USSR) but you will see mosques/buddha statues/whatever is applicable and all the local traditions and beliefs mostly going like before

    Actually in areas where local languages exist they kept schools teaching local languages and official signs are duplicated in both local and Russian all the way from USSR. I know this first hand;) but even the article you linked will tell you that.

    So it was maybe not as good as support for indigenous languages in Canada but not extermination

    Only since 2018 it is optional to teach local language in schools, previously there were at least some schools that teach it in every area like that. thank Putler for that too.

    • koiueo 4 hours ago

      This is false.

      Entire history of Ukraine since russia became a thing is a constant struggle for preserving its own language.

      Look at what happens now: 1. russia demands russian language to be declared official in Ukraine. 2. russia targets Ukrainian cultural institutions in its airstrikes, trying to destroy anything Ukrainian 3. first things russians do after occupying a territory is "reeducation" of Ukrainian-speaking representatives of the population and burning Ukrainian books

      I can continue this list.

      Seeing original post at times like this is genuinely confusing. But OTOH, many still choose to be wrong understanding russia's warv against Ukraine. pUtin explicitly said he intends to solve "Ukrainian question" once and for all.

      • throwaway290 an hour ago

        My reply is about what happened within borders of Russia to indigenous languages and cultures. if you think I'm commenting about war against another country you are very wrong

    • wraptile 6 hours ago

      > but not language extermination

      as Lithuania - this is absolutely not true. Even before Soviet union the Russian empire was exterminating language to the point where there's an entire Lithuanian history chapter on Lithuanian book smugglers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_book_smugglers

      Soviet empire wasn't better either. My great grandmother who was a Lithuanian language teacher was sent to Siberian gulags _for_ teaching Lithuanian. Luckily she survived and lived to a 100 just to prove these disgusting people wrong.

      • throwaway290 6 hours ago

        Sorry, my perspective is based on what happened within borders of Russia, I guess USSR was worse to white people who look more like russians

wiseowise 4 hours ago

You're struggling to see how glorifying language, culture and ignoring context triggers people?

> But you understand you are playing "their"

Who's "their"? West tried to play nice for years, welcoming Russians despite active aggression and it yielded nothing.

  • rixed an hour ago

    > You're struggling to see how glorifying language, culture and ignoring context triggers people?

    Yes, actually, I am. And not only that, I'm also wondering why you think the linked post is "glorifying" anything.