Comment by systemtest

Comment by systemtest 17 hours ago

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> for the Swedish carmaker

Chinese. Volvo is a fully Chinese company that has some people working for them in Sweden. That does not make Volvo a Swedish carmaker. Zeekr also isn't a Swedish carmaker, despite having an R&D center in Gothenburg.

A friend recently got a steering pump for his classic Volvo 940 and instead of a European part the official Volvo dealership gave him a Chinese part. Broke in a couple of months.

The times that a Volvo would do 500,000 kilometers with basis maintenance is in the past.

Kon5ole 32 minutes ago

Volvo still design, develop, prototype and even mass produce cars in Sweden just like they always did. They haven't had Swedish majority ownership this century but still do their thing.

That could change of course, but so far so good for the Swedish economy and fans of Scandi design.

Since Chinese tech is clearly state of the art for EV's I think Volvo could be in a good spot if they get to continue as they have so far. Win-win.

As for realiability, 500 000 km is no problem for a decent EV and Geely makes good ones. I wouldn't worry about that aspect either way.

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2143 6 hours ago

That’s anecdotal.

So do you think iPhones built in China have terrible build quality? How about the ones made in India? I have an India-built iPhone — can’t tell a difference.

Chinese parts don’t necessarily mean low quality. It may have meant that in the past, but not anymore. People need to get over that mentality.

There’s nothing inherently magical about anywhere (be it Europe, America, India, China, or anywhere else) that guarantees things made there are of impeccable or terrible quality. If it’s built well it’s built well.

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  • fakedang 4 hours ago

    The fact is that Volvo's reputation and prioritization of quality builds and stringent safety measures (I owe my life to a rental Volvo S90) are not shared by its Chinese parent company. When that philosophy trickles top-down, Volvo is affected.

    In Apple's case, even as a iOS hater (yet a user), I would still say that Apple prioritizes product quality standards at a very high level. That culture trickles down as imposed requirements from Apple to its suppliers.

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KomoD 17 hours ago

> Volvo is a fully Chinese company that has some people working for them in Sweden

Volvo (Cars) doesn't just "have some people working for them" in Sweden. Volvo Personvagnar Aktiebolag was founded in, and is incorporated in, Sweden. Their HQ is in Sweden.

Zeekr was started by a Chinese company in China and has their HQ in China.

I consider it "Swedish-Chinese"

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  • bryanlarsen 17 hours ago

    Volvo has more people working for it in China than in Sweden.

    Volvo builds more cars in China than it does in Sweden.

    Volvo is owned by the Chinese.

    Arguably more of the design for Volvo cars is done in China. It depends on whether you consider the visible design more important or the powertrain.

    Volvo is part Swedish, but it's much more "Chinese-Swedish" than "Swedish-Chinese".

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    • ddalex 7 hours ago

      All the main design, both aesthetically and mechanical, is done in Sweden. This is what makes it Swedish

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      • drob518 30 minutes ago

        Apple products are all “Designed in Cupertino, California,” and manufactured in China, but it isn’t Chinese. I think what makes Volvo a Chinese company is that they are literally owned by the Chinese, though I think it’s smart for them to continue to design in Sweden to retain their historical positioning and sensibilities.

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      • echelon 5 hours ago

        You wouldn't say Thinkpad is a US laptop anymore.

        Milwaukee tools? Chinese.

        You wouldn't say that many of the skyscrapers in China designed by international artists and architects weren't Chinese.

        It doesn't matter who is designing the Chinese cars. They're Chinese owned and operated. That's where the buck stops.

        What's to stop the Swedish portion from being downsized in the future? That call would be made in China.

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        • cjblomqvist 36 minutes ago

          The majority of the employees, in particular top management, is Swedish.

          2/9 on the board are Chinese (same as Swedes). The rest are westerners.

          Volvo produces more cars in Sweden than Apple produces iPhones etc in the US.

          But you are correct that ownership of the company is majority Chinese (Li Shufu/Geely specifically) and they can control a lot.

          Apple's ownership is more muddy, since the largest owners are big institutional (US) owners - mostly representing owners from who knows where through big funds (including index funds). I think it's fair to say that Apple is owned very globally. In that sense it's not US controlled, but globally controlled.

          I think Volvo is still very Swedish, including its products, but also heavily Chinese influenced (and trending up) due to market challenges.

          There's probably still some value in associating a large multi national company to a specific country and attributing it certain things due to that, but with these big companies it's becoming less so and definitely more complex. But saying that Volvo is fully Chinese and not Swedish anymore? That seems like fooling oneself.

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amarant 17 hours ago

It's technically not wrong to describe Volvo as Swedish. It was founded in Sweden, the main office remains in Sweden, but it is fully owned by China.

Swedish or not is a matter of perspective at this point.

Similarly for mojang, king and dice. All founded in Sweden, main offices in Stockholm, and owned by American companies(ms, ms, and ea, respectively)

Arguably powerhouses of Swedish gaming, arguably American affiliates in Sweden.

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emehex 16 hours ago

I thought Volvo was publicly traded. Had to look it up.

Volvo Group - sells trucks - publicly traded - Swedish

Volvo Cars - sells cars - not publicly traded - 100% owned by Geely (Chinese)

Volvo Cars ≠ Volvo Group

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Aloha 17 hours ago

Was Volvo an American car company when it was owned by Ford?

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  • 0manrho 13 hours ago

    It's more chinese now than it ever was American, but it's certainly not an absolute thing. Thanks to the global supply chain, it's a big complicated spectrum compounded by a bunch of "it depends". If you don't want to dwell in that pedantry, don't blame you (though I am easily nerd-sniped by discussions of logistics), but without that, that essentially leaves us with "Who owns it" and "Where is it Headquartered." There's also "what are the demographics of their employees" to see if there's a strong representation of a single country ID, but that information isn't always readily available.

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matsemann 17 hours ago

So all American IT companies are really Irish or something, since they're incorporated there?

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  • systemtest 17 hours ago

    IKEA is still Swedish despite being incorporated in The Netherlands and having all their "charities" in The Netherlands. For companies of that size, being incorporated somewhere is just an administrative trick to lower taxes. The same way I structured my mortgage to maximise tax returns.

    Volvo Cars has been bought by Geely. That is not comparable.

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  • tekkk 17 hours ago

    Are they owned by the Irish?

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  • colechristensen 17 hours ago

    No the parent companies are always incorporated in the US, usually in Deleware.

    They funnel all of their foreign profits through various tax shelter subsidiaries in Ireland and similar locations.

    Meta, Amazon, Alphabet, and Netflix are all incorporated in Deleware, Apple is incorporated in California.

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mikeryan 17 hours ago

Huh? Volvo is a subsidiary. Almost every legacy car company is a subsidiary of some kind. Lamborghinis aren’t German because they’re owned by Volkswagen group and often have Audi parts and Jeep isn’t Dutch because they’re owned by Stellantis.

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  • garyfirestorm 16 hours ago

    Well I have recently noticed many news organizations don’t refer to the Detroit automakers as ‘the big3’ anymore. They make it a point to say ford and gm and quietly leave Stellantis out of the mix. Although Stellantis has strong presence in US as formerly Chrysler and Fiat Chrysler, the reality is they are not American auto company anymore. I’d guess they’re counted as European.

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    • cr125rider 10 hours ago

      Would you consider Ram as still being American? I have to assume a lot of their manufacturing is still done in the US due to a limited international market for their trucks.

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aplummer 17 hours ago

My anecdata on a 2019 Volvo xc40 is that it’s my most reliable car ever? Made in china too

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  • brewtide 16 hours ago

    2010 xc60 (turbo online 6) here a few thousand miles away from 300k...

    It's got a few issues, but the thing has been a beast. Not sure how Chinese it is however.

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    • bzzzt 3 hours ago

      2010 was the year Volvo ownership went to Geely, so your xc60 was designed and built under Ford ownership. The xc60 is a big, expensive SUV (at least for us EU residents) so presumably there should be a quality engine in there.

      Some smaller models at the time had a PSA (Ford/Peugeot) engine which don't come anywhere near 300k before blowing up (or simply becoming very expensive to maintain).

      The latest electric EX30 model reuses the Chinese built Zeekr X design. Seems like they drive ok, but if they can get 300k remains to be seen. Haven't seen any used with more than around 50k on them.

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      • chinathrow 3 hours ago

        I drove the EX30 for a few days as a loaner. Build quality is nothing in comparison to what e.g. the XC40 provides. I get it, it's cheaper, but it does not feel like it's a Volvo any more.

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