wiz21c 4 hours ago

Java is owned by Oracle. And you sure don't want to do business with that company. There's a reason why postgresql is slowly eating their cake.

  • OrangeMusic 4 hours ago

    This is FUD. Java has many open source implementations and nobody needs to deal with Oracle.

    • vidarh 3 hours ago

      Even if we postulate that he fear is unwarranted and irrational, the fear is still real, based on Oracles history of lawsuits, and so the explanation still holds.

      • gf000 an hour ago

        It explains nothing.

        Java is possibly the safest bet on the future, it's open source both in spec and in the most common implementation (OpenJDK), and is so widely used that there are multiple FAANG companies critically dependent on Java working that alone could continue the development of the platform were anything happen.

        Besides, Oracle has been a surprisingly good steward of the language.

    • jve 3 hours ago

      Well except Google that got sued for US$8.8 Billion because they decided to use specific API signatures but provide their own implementation...?!

      • OrangeMusic 3 hours ago

        Come on, that's a completely different story, Google made their own independent SDK using but incompatible with Java. Nobody's arguing you should do that.

        Plus last time I checked Oracle lost that lawsuit.

      • [removed] 2 hours ago
        [deleted]
Schnitz 7 hours ago

Anywhere where the correct Java version is installed correctly, important caveat

  • gf000 an hour ago

    You can just supply a minimized runtime for your program, which is the primary way to ship Java programs for quite some time now.

  • jimbob45 6 hours ago

    Java’s cardinal sin was not owning the OS like Microsoft’s C# to force end-users to update the framework. Oracle really didn’t understand what they were sitting on with their Ubuntu competitor Solaris.

    • sander1095 5 hours ago

      This has no longer been the case for C# for 10 years since the release of .NET Core and (now) .NET. The runtime is no longer bundled with the OS.

      This is only true for older .NET Framework applications.

      • Topfi 4 hours ago

        Isn’t it post installation still updated via Windows Update as they said (force end-users to update the framework)?

        • nly 3 hours ago

          Only patches, it doesn't automatically install new major versions

wrboyce 11 hours ago

It’s relevant enough that I feel I can roll out this bash.org classic…

<Alanna> Saying that Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders

EDIT: someone has (much to my joy) made an archive of bash.org so here is a link[1], but I must say I’m quite jealous of today’s potential 1/10,000[2] who will discover bash.org from my comment!

[1] https://bash-org-archive.com/?338364

[2] https://xkcd.com/1053

  • anamexis 10 hours ago

    Perhaps my biggest claim to fame is being #11 on the bash.org top 100.

    • komali2 8 hours ago

      Hah, found it: https://bash-org-archive.com/?207373

      So how did it work back in the day, people would just submit text and it would get upvoted? I always assumed like half of them were just made up.

      • anamexis 7 hours ago

        Yep, exactly that. I recall that the voting was interesting because it was just ranked on absolute number of votes, no time decay or anything, so it would take quite some time for a new contender to accumulate votes to "compete" on the leaderboard. I don't remember if there were even accounts or if anyone could just vote repeatedly, modulo some IP or cookie-based limits.

        As far provenance, I assume a lot of them were made up too, but this one was real.

  • post_below 3 hours ago

    As one of the lucky 1/10000, holy shit that was amazing. Thank you.

    To everyone else: I acknowlege that this post is not adding value but if you were one of the lucky 1/10000 you would understand that I have no choice.

  • centur 11 hours ago

    Not discovered from scratch, but was a big fan when it was alive and kicking. Went there from time to time to get some mood boosters. So was very sad when found that it's gone (original one). Thanks a lot for sharing that bash-org-archive.com exists, what a great fun going down this memory lane.

    • wrboyce 10 hours ago

      I’ve been browsing the archive since I left that comment, they really were the good old days weren’t they. IRC was my introduction to geekdom, and I don’t think it would be unreasonable to say it shaped my life. Here I am 30-ish years later, an old man yelling at clouds — and I wouldn’t change much!

      If anyone ever requested/used an eggdrop(?) bot from #farmbots or #wildbots on quakenet then thanks to you too; that was certainly one of the next steps down the path I took. A (probably very injectable) PHP blog and a bunch of TCL scripts powering bots, man I wish I could review that code now.

  • yellow_lead 11 hours ago

    That's hilarious. My comment is mostly a joke, but also trying to say that "runs everywhere" isn't that impressive anymore.

  • orliesaurus 11 hours ago

    wait - how do you search the quotes??

    • wrboyce 11 hours ago

      I don’t think there is a search function, I got the exact wording from a web search (I think “bash Java anal”, arguably a dangerous search!) and then after submitting I wondered if there is an archive of the quotes.

ok_dad 8 hours ago

I ain’t hot a horse in this race I just put 2 and 2 together to get 4. I’m sure Java is fine but they didn’t buy Java.

827a 12 hours ago

Java is not for sale.

  • Zambyte 11 hours ago

    Java can be depended on without buying anything.

    • SergeAx 11 hours ago

      Oracle lawyers want you to think so.

      • gf000 an hour ago

        You mean the company that 100% open-sourced Java and made the open-source (same license as Linux) OpenJDK the reference implementation?

    • bossyTeacher 11 hours ago

      Java's price is your time which you will need tons of as Java is highly verbose. The ultimate enterprise language

      • spruce_tips 11 hours ago

        try java 25, and update your priors :)

      • sfn42 3 hours ago

        This is such a crappy point. People say it's better now but even in java 8 it's just BS. Oh boo hoo I have to write a few extra words here and there. Woe is me. The IDE will autogenerate the boilerplate for you, you don't even have to write it yourself. And once it's there it's actually useful, there's a reason it exists.

wiseowise 13 hours ago

Not in the browser, and no – webassembly doesn't count, otherwise you can say the same about Go and others.

  • creata 13 hours ago

    Wasm does count, and you can say the same about Go and others.

    • jazzypants 10 hours ago

      Sure, they run, but they can't touch the DOM or do much that's very interesting without JavaScript.

    • Sammi 12 hours ago

      Js just runs as is. Atwood's Law and all that.

  • fishmicrowaver 12 hours ago

    May I ask, what is this obsession with targeting the browser? I've also noticed a hatred of k8s here, and while I truly understand it, I'd take the complication of managing infrastructure over frontend fads any day.

    • MasterScrat 11 hours ago

      HN has a hatred of K8s? That’s new to me

      • fishmicrowaver 11 hours ago

        This is a site for startups. They have no business running k8s, in fact, many of the lessons learned get passed on from graybeards to the younger generation along those lines. Perhaps I'm wrong! I'd love to talk shop somewhere.

      • smt88 8 hours ago

        K8s is used in many situations it shouldn't be, and a lot of HNers (including me) are bitter about having to deal with the resulting messes

  • kreijstal 11 hours ago

    java did run in the browser once.... it was embedded directly on the browser there was also nsapi

    you could also run java with js if you are brave enough https://kreijstal.github.io/java-tools/

    • TeaVMFan 9 hours ago

      Java runs in the browser currently, after a transpilation step (same as .ts):

      https://teavm.org/

      • gf000 an hour ago

        Also CheerpJ (with support for Swing UIs even), Closure compiler, and now GraalVM also has an experimental WasmGC target.

mythz 9 hours ago

AI tools value simplicity, fast bootstrapping and iterations, this rules out the JVM which has the worst build system and package repositories I've ever had the displeasure of needing to use. Check in gradle binaries in 2025? Having to wait days for packages to sync? Windows/Linux gradle wrappers for every project? Broken builds and churn after every major upgrade. It's broken beyond repair.

By contrast `bun install` is about as good as it gets.

  • pjmlp 4 hours ago

    Gradle is something that only Android devs should be using, and because of Google imposes its use. Had not been for Google and Android Gradle plugin, almost no one would care.

    Please give me Java tools over C, C++, JavaScript or Python ones, any day of the week.

    Only .NET and Rust compare equally in quality of DX.

    AI tools value simplicity?!?

    Check in the Python dependency management chaos, what it is the proposal this month, from what AI startup doing Python tools in Rust?

  • DarkNova6 3 hours ago

    Apples and oranges. Maven is leagues beyond npm. Screw Gradle.

    How many mass security incidents have there been with npm just the last few weeks?

  • sfn42 3 hours ago

    It's just too bad bun is based on literally the worst programming language that's in actual use.

    • mythz 2 hours ago

      TypeScript's one of the best, and bun runs it natively.

      • sfn42 2 hours ago

        Typescript is a band aid on the gaping gushing wound that is JavaScript. It attempts to fix one problem JS has and it doesn't really succeed.

  • speed_spread 8 hours ago

    By using Gradle you certainly didn't make yourself a favor.

    • JavierFlores09 3 hours ago

      I am unsure why people feel the need to say this about Gradle. If you aren't doing anything fancy, the most you will touch is the repositories and dependencies block of your build script, perhaps add publishing or shadow plugins and configure them accordingly but that has never been simpler than it is now. Gradle breaks when you feel the need to unnecessarily update things like the wrapper version or plugins without considering the implications that has. Wrapper is bundled in so you don't have to try and make a build script work with whatever version you might have installed on your system if you have any, toolchain resolution makes it so you don't even need to install an appropriate JDK version as it does that for you.

      If the build script being a DSL is the issue, they're even experimenting around declarative gradle scripts [0], which is going to be nice for people used to something like maven.

      0: https://declarative.gradle.org/

      • DarkNova6 3 hours ago

        And yet. None of these issues exist in Maven to begin with.

throwawaymaths 13 hours ago

run code anywhere hamstrung by 90s syntax and hidden code indirections

  • groundzeros2015 13 hours ago

    Haven’t checked in on Java in a while?

    • ozim 12 hours ago

      From what I gather everyone is still stuck on Java 8 so no need to check?

      • gf000 an hour ago

        Even stuck on Java 8 it's less verbose than Go, which everyone seems to love.

        But the majority of projects are on a newer JDK than 8 for quite some years now.

      • throwaway7783 9 hours ago

        Where do you gather this from? We are a startup, on Java and on 25.

      • vips7L 10 hours ago

        No, everyone isn’t. You really should check.

      • foo4u 11 hours ago

        This is absolutely untrue. Code from JDK 8 runs fine on JDK 25 (just released LTS). It is true that if you did something silly that locks you into certain dependency versions, you may be stuck, but this is not the majority of applications.

    • auxiliarymoose 6 hours ago

      I tried to check in on Java recently but got a NullPointerException when using the AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean !

      • gf000 an hour ago

        R/ProgrammerHumor quality comment here.

      • OrangeMusic 3 hours ago

        I'll never understand people making fun of verbosity. So you really prefer short, ambiguous, opaque and unpronounceable abbreviations? Really?!