Comment by dllu

Comment by dllu 14 hours ago

5 replies

The article talks about eye safety a bit in section 4.

> a stuck mirror

This is one of the advantages of using an array of low power lasers rather than steering a single high power laser. The array physically doesn't have a failure mode where the power gets concentrated in a single direction. Anyway, theoretically, you would hope that class 1 eye-safe lidars should be eye safe even at point blank range, meaning that even if the beam gets stuck pointing into your eye, it would still be more or less safe.

> 20 cars at an intersection = 20 overlapping scanners, meaning even if each meets single-device Class 1, linear addition could offer your retina a 20x dose enough to push into Class 3B territory.

In the article, I point out a small nuance: If you have many lidars around, the beams from each 905 nm lidar will be focused to a different spot on your retina, and you are no worse off than if there was a single lidar. But if there are many 1550 nm lidars around, their beams will have a cumulative effect at heating up your cornea, potentially exceeding the safety threshold.

Also, if a lidar is eye-safe at point blank range, when you have multiple cars tens of meters away, laser beam divergence already starts to reduce the intensity, not to mention that when the lidars are scanning properly, the probability of all of them pointing in the same spot is almost impossible.

By the way, the Waymo Laser Bear Honeycomb is the bumper lidar (940 nm iirc) and not the big 1550 nm unit that was on the Chrysler Pacificas. The newer Jaguar I-Pace cars don't have the 1550 nm lidar at all but have a much bigger and higher performance spinning lidar.

amelius 20 minutes ago

> The array physically doesn't have a failure mode where the power gets concentrated in a single direction

Ok, but now the software can cause the failure. Not sure if that's much of a relief.

ErroneousBosh 13 hours ago

> > a stuck mirror

Detect the mirror being stuck and shut the beam off. Easy.

Hint: how bad would it be if the MCU in your gas heating boiler latched up and wouldn't shut the burner off? How is this mitigated?

  • marcellus23 12 hours ago

    This was addressed in the original comment:

    > Additionally, no LIDAR manufacturer publishes beam-failure shutoff latency. Most are >50ms, which can be long enough for permanent injury

  • snypher 10 hours ago

    Pressure switches, flow sensors, mechanical flame detectors, power supply monitoring, watchdog timers, and XX years of Honeywell or whoever knowing what they are doing.

    So yes, a mirror trip reset is probably a good start. But would I trust someone's vision to this alone?

    • ErroneousBosh 3 hours ago

      > Pressure switches, flow sensors, mechanical flame detectors, power supply monitoring, watchdog timers, and XX years of Honeywell or whoever knowing what they are doing.

      Nope, nothing as complicated as that. You're close with the watchdog timer.

      The solenoid is driven by a charge pump, which is capacitively coupled to the output of the controller. The controller toggles the gas grant output on and off a couple of times a second, and it doesn't matter if it sticks high or low - if there's no pulses the charge pump with "go flat" after about a second and drop the solenoid out.

      Do the same thing. If a sensor at the edge of the LIDAR's scan misses a scan, kill the beam.

      Same way we used to do for electron beam scanning.