Comment by adi_kurian

Comment by adi_kurian 21 hours ago

12 replies

Good article though rather than philosphizing about lost souls, we probably should go back to the future.

Pen-and-paper exams only. No take-home essays or assignments. Assessments done in person under supervision. No devices in class. Heavily reduced remote learning or online coursework. Coursework redesigned so that any out-of-class work is explicitly AI-collaborative. Frequent low-stakes in-class writing to verify student voice and baseline ability. And when resources permit have oral exams and presentations as a means of assessment.

We did this for decades when tuition was a fraction of today's cost. Any argument that we can't return to basics is bollocks.

If you're trying to hawk education for $$$$$$, probably need to offer some actual human instruction, not Zoom and Discord sessions that anyone could run from their bedroom.

If they can't, then the rot and capture really is as bad as this makes out, and to update Will Hunting: the kids might as well save $150k and get their learning for $20/month on ChatGPT.

vondur 19 hours ago

This is the correct answer. I work at a CSU (non-faculty) and the issue here is many of the faculty like using online and automated systems to dish out the work and the grading. Going back to doing it the old fashioned way will provoke a pushback from the faculty who will complain about workloads etc...

Pet_Ant 21 hours ago

My parents had oral exams in university. I feel like that actually is a better format that does not rewarding cramming, but is interactive and over quicker. It means that there is a dynamic that actually allows for grading problem solving over regurgitation.

  • ravenstine 21 hours ago

    I agree, though I shudder to imagine how cringey the switchover would be. A significant number of students already had poor diction and linguistic skills when I was in college, and recent evidence shows this situation has likely become worse.

  • RAIN92 14 hours ago

    It's ironic. In Italy we always had constant oral exams (and still do!) from elementary school all the way to Uni. At least 2 per week in high school.

    In an effort to standardize European systems many courses are trying to get rid of them because foreign students are particularly weak in an oral defense.

    Turns out we were right for once :D

  • Der_Einzige 20 hours ago

    Anyone with oral exams was privileged.

    • defrost 18 hours ago

      Privileged enough to have a place at a university, sure.

      That didn't universally equate to privilege in a class or wealth sense for a number of countries.

      eg: https://www.whitlam.org/whitlam-legacy-education

      was the system I was educated under, when I took orals it was a result of being a scruffy kid that wore no shoes but passed general high school and math talent exams better than all but three others my age in the state.

      ( For interest, the three that ramked higher than myself that year in Tertiary admissions exams were all educated in expensive private schools in the capital city- I got by on School of the Air, a bunch of books and a few years at a smallish remote high school in far north W.Australia

      * https://www.aades.edu.au/members/wa

      1970's ham radio running off truck batteries - pre internet for that area, although we did experiment with text over phone line and packet radio.

      * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestel

      )

    • Pet_Ant 19 hours ago

      > Anyone with oral exams was privileged.

      No, they really weren't. These were state school's in 1970's eastern Europe. No tuition, and neither parent was from a privileged background.

binary132 19 hours ago

it's almost as though what we need is to entirely ditch the university scam and create something new that more closely resembles what its real purpose was always supposed to be.

euroderf 19 hours ago

In 7th grade history, once a week the class started with a brief (written) quiz.

Is something like that so hard to do ?