shagie 21 hours ago

I'm gonna flip this around... have you tried pasting the image (and the relevant paragraph of text) and asking ChatGPT (or another LLM) to generate the alt text for the image and see what it produces?

For example... https://chatgpt.com/share/692f1578-2bcc-8011-ac8f-a57f2ab6a7...

  • alwillis 18 hours ago

    > I'm gonna flip this around... have you tried pasting the image (and the relevant paragraph of text) and asking ChatGPT (or another LLM) to generate the alt text for the image and see what it produces?

    There's a great app by an indie developer that uses ML to identify objects in images. Totally scriptable via JavaScript, shell script and AppleScript. macOS only.

    Could be 10, 100 or 1,000 images [1].

    [1]: https://flyingmeat.com/retrobatch/

gostsamo a day ago

The question to ask is, what a sighted person learns after looking at the image? The answer is the alt text. E.g if the image is a floppy, maybe you communicate that this is the save button. If it shows a cat sleeping on the windowsill, the alt text is yep: "my cat looking cute while sleeping on the windowsill".

  • michaelbuckbee a day ago

    I really like how you framed this as the takeaway or learning that needs to happen as what should be in the alt and not a recitation of the image. Where I've often had issues is more for things like business charts and illustrations and less cute cat photos.

    • isoprophlex a day ago

      "A meaningless image of a chart, from which nevertheless emanates a feeling of stonks going up"

    • travisjungroth a day ago

      It might be that you’re not perfectly clear on what exactly you’re trying to convey with the image and why it’s there.

      • gostsamo a day ago

        sorry, snark does not help with my desire to improve accessibility in the wild.

        • travisjungroth 8 hours ago

          I really didn’t mean to be snarky. Maybe if I was speaking, my tone would have made that more clear, or I could have worded it differently.

          “Why is this here? What am I trying to say?” are super important things in design and also so easy to lose track of.

    • gostsamo a day ago

      The logic stays the same though the answer is longer and not always easy. Just saying "business chart" is totally useless. You can make a choice on what to focus and say "a chart of the stock for the last five years with constant improvement and a clear increase by 17 percent in 2022" (if it is a simple point that you are trying to make) or you can provide an html table with the datapoints if there is data that the user needs to explore on their own.

      • nextaccountic a day ago

        but the table exists outside the alt text, right? i don't know a mechanism to say "this html table represents the contents of this image" , in a way that screen readers and other accessibility technologies take advantage of

        • gostsamo a day ago

          The figure tag has both image and caption tags that link them. As far as I remember, some content could be marked as screen reader only if you don't want for the table to be visible to the rest of the users.

          Additionally, recently I've been a participant in accessibility studies where charts, diagrams and the like have been structured to be easier to explore with a sr. Those needed js to work and some of them looked custom, but they are also an alternative way to layer data.

askew a day ago

One way to frame it is: "how would I describe this image to somebody sat next to me?"

  • embedding-shape a day ago

    Important to add for blind people: "... assuming they never seen anything and visual metaphors won't work"

    The amount of times I've seem captions that wouldn't make sense for people who never been able to see is staggering, I don't think most people realize how visual our typical language usage is.