Comment by Buttons840

Comment by Buttons840 2 days ago

9 replies

The only multiplayer game I currently play is Beyond All Reason (a RTS game).

It's a free and open-source game, so creating a cheat client would be especially easy. But I've never encountered cheating.

I think there's a few reasons for this:

1) The playerbase is small and there is no auto-matchmaking, just a traditional list of servers. This results in the same group of people always playing together. People don't want to cheat when they're playing with acquaintances they see frequently.

2) Spectators are allowed in every game. The top-ranked games usually have several spectators.

You might think this would result in even more cheating, but in practice the spectators would prefer to watch a sneak attacks succeed, because it's funny. It's boring to be whispering the enemy secrets to you buddy on a private Discord, it's more fun to watch your buddy die in a surprising and funny way.

Also, the spectators can spot if a player does something that suspiciously well timed or lucky. The spectators see all, so they have the information needed to spot suspicious behavior.

3) Official servers create an official record of what happened in every game. The entire community has access to all the recordings. If someone thinks cheating is happening they can link to the official game recording on Reddit (or whatever) and everyone can see what happened.

4) An active moderator team reviews every report of cheating. There are official moderators that do the banning, but also volunteer moderators which can watch the recordings and create a trusted written account of what happened; this makes the official moderators have an easier job.

ZephyrSkies a day ago

Hi, one of the BAR devs here. Glad to hear the tall praise for the project and even happier to hear you've been having a great time playing it!

One of the additional safeguards against cheating within BAR is the shared simulation that all machines connected to any given match have to perform. As the entire process is synced between all these machines, any mismatch is immediately picked up by other machines and the server hosting the match itself and results in an automatic booting of that player with the desynced game. If 15 machines can agree on an event happening in the simulation, and 1 can't, why should the 1 be trusted? This includes things like the economy reserves for a given player or the behaviour of their units, not just the physical simulation of the projectiles and their trajectories and hit registers.

PtaQQ a day ago

Hello, CM for BAR here, nice to see it mentioned :)

As Zephyr says state manipulation cheats are impossible since they would lead to desyncing any online battle.

Since every user technically has access to the whole game state there are user side cheats possible, like LoS hack, but these are easily detectible (as well as spectator cheating) and very active moderator team makes sure anyone using them is perm'ad so it's not worth for people to try them and it's been super rare so far.

Smurfing (using alt accounts with lower ELO to get weaker opponents/avoid moderation) is probably the most prevailent type of "cheating" but there is a lot of active and passive countermeasures implemented so most players will rarely experience issues with that.

ThrowawayR2 2 days ago

Seems more likely that the cause is that RTS isn't a popular genre among gamers and Beyond All Reason is obscure[1] even among RTSes. There's no fame or money to make it worth investing in cheating.

[1] Among the general public, not RTS aficionados. Which is unfortunate; Total Annihilation and its spiritual descendants like BAR deserve more love.

  • officeplant 2 days ago

    Even as an RTS player I've never heard of it, but I have learned recently that I've missed out on an entire niche scene based off of TA. Been playing RTS's since 1994ish and only recently bought TA to go back and play through it. Never owned it back in the day.

  • Buttons840 2 days ago

    People have been banned for cheating, so cheats exist.

    • LMYahooTFY 2 days ago

      I don't think they're saying cheating doesn't exist for the game, they're saying the popularity/incentive is too low to attract many cheaters compared to esports games.

      • Buttons840 2 days ago

        I'm saying they have their fair share of cheating and they have managed to moderate it well without using any form of anti-cheat software.

        Of course a small game is going to have fewer cheaters. They have fewer cheaters, but they also have fewer moderators; it's literally like 4 or 5 people doing it in their free time.

AuthAuth 2 days ago

Its unfair to compare other games to BAR. BAR is to good