Comment by enraged_camel

Comment by enraged_camel 3 days ago

10 replies

America's post-war strength was built on unusually strong education. After the war, America had far more schooling overall than other countries. It was one of the many factors that made America a powerhouse in the 50s and 60s.

Economic historians Claudia Goldin and Lawrence Katz, who are essentially the gold standard reference here, show that the US became the richest nation precisely because it led the world in mass education (first universal high school, then mass higher ed), not in spite of it.

>> America’s preference for common wisdom over book learning is a strength, not a weakness. Formal education filters for risk averse, process and credential-oriented people.

High-education countries don't look like basket cases. Among 25-64 year olds, the countries with the highest tertiary attainment shares are: Canada (64%), Japan (56%), South Korea (53%), USA (50%), and the Nordic countries hovering around similar rates. These are some of the richest, most technologically advanced societies in the world. If "credential worship" made a society brittle and unproductive, you'd expect these places to be obvious failures.

India's problem is not too much college. It's that gross tertiary enrollment ratio is only 33%, below the world average. The development-econ diagnosis of India is actually the reverse of your claim: too many people with too little quality education, especially basic literacy, numeracy and foundational skills, plus a small highly-credentialed elite at the top.

>> The GI bill isn’t a counterpoint. GI’s still had to gain admissions at a time when colleges were far more selective than today: https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2024/01/23/why_college... (undergraduate IQs fell from 119 in 1939 to just 102 in 2022). So you created a filter that was extremely rigorous. It supported college education for people who were both significantly smarter than average, and also had served in the military—the Marcus Aurelius type.

The GI bill massively expanded college. Half of all college students in 1947 were vets. It is widely credited with building the post-war middle class. The IQ meta-analysis you cite explicitly says the drop in average student IQ is a mechanical result of more people going to college, not evidence that universities got worse. The researchers in fact explicitly say this.

chrisweekly 3 days ago

+1 outstanding rebuttal w/ facts and data-backed insights, thank you for that

  • hitekker 2 days ago

    Hmmm, I don't see the outstanding part of the rebuttal. While it raises real evidence, it doesn't address the elephant of overeducation. The cited countries, for example, are faltering in myriad ways that their electorates have decidedly reacted against; enormous education sold to too many, falling far short of its promises.

    Like many of us here, I've been overeducated and I'm against overeducation. "Not letting your education get in the way of your learning" summarizes that view, which I think use to be a tenet of the hacker ethos underlying this forum.

    • chrisweekly 2 days ago

      "The cited countries, for example, are faltering in myriad ways"

      ... as if higher education is somehow to blame, or conceivably capable of preventing countries from having any problems? Your comment provides not a shred of evidence that "overeducation" is even connected to said problems, let alone the "elephant". Respectfully, the burden's on you there.

  • [removed] 2 days ago
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jmspring 3 days ago

Part of the problem with the way India wants to be seen is those that go to IIT, etc., get into white collar jobs that elevate them well above the norm in India want to ignore the rest of the country. Abject poverty.

The US has severe issues as well, but many countries that want to be seen for their techonological advancement want to hide the less successful parts of their communities.

HKH2 3 days ago

> High-education countries don't look like basket cases.

They are all low fertility countries.

  • user____name 2 days ago

    High fertility countries are doing great, obviously. If at first you don't succeed, redefine success.

    • HKH2 2 days ago

      Of course there are only two options, low and high.

  • defrost 3 days ago

    Breeding out of control and over consuming the earth's resources is for basket cases.