Comment by _pdp_

Comment by _pdp_ 13 hours ago

83 replies

I've started a company in this space about 2 years ago. We are doing fine. What we've learned so far is that a lot of these techniques are simply optimisations to tackle some deficiency in LLMs that is a problem "today". These are not going to be problems tomorrow because the technology will shift. As it happened many time in the span of the last 2 years.

So yah, cool, caching all of that... but give it a couple of months and a better technique will come out - or more capable models.

Many years ago when disc encryption on AWS was not an option, my team and I had to spend 3 months to come up with a way to encrypt the discs and do so well because at the time there was no standard way. It was very difficult as that required pushing encrypted images (as far as I remember). Soon after we started, AWS introduced standard disc encryption that you can turn on by clicking a button. We wasted 3 months for nothing. We should have waited!

What I've learned from this is that often times it is better to do absolutely nothing.

siva7 10 hours ago

This is the most important observation. I'm getting so many workshop invitations from my corporate colleagues about AI and agents. What most people don't get that these clever patterns they "invented" will be obsolete next week. This nice company blog about agents - one which got viral recently - will be obsolete next month. It's hard to swallow for my colleagues that in these age - like when you studied gang of four or a software architecture pattern book that you have learned a common language - no, these days the half-life of a pattern for AI is about a week. Even when you ask 10 professionals what an agent actually is - you will get 10 different answers yet they assume that how they use it is the common understanding.

  • Vinnl 8 hours ago

    This is also why it's perfectly fine to wait out this AI hype and see what sticks afterward. It probably won't cost too much time to catch up, because at that point everyone who knows what they're doing only learned that a month or two ago anyway.

  • lowbloodsugar 7 hours ago

    Counterpoint to these two posts: a journeyman used to have to make his own tools. He could easily have bought them, or his master could have made them. Making your own tools gives you vastly greater skills when using the tools. So I know how fast AI agents and model APIs are evolving, but I’m writing them anyway. Every break in my career has been someone telling me it’s impossible and then me doing it anyway. If you use an agent framework, you really have no idea how artificially constrained you. You’re so constrained, and yet you are oblivious to it.

    On the “wasting three months” remark (GP), if it’s a key value proposition, just do it. Don’t wait. If it’s not a key value prop, then don’t do it at all. Often times what I’ve built has been better tailored to our product than what AWS built.

    • hammock 3 hours ago

      You can make your own hand plane, and you will be a better woodworker for it. Still in a few months your competition will be using a electric planes and routers

      • DrewADesign 2 hours ago

        The cult of efficiency aims to turn craftsmanship into something that only concerns hobbyists. Everything else is optimizing money in vs money out to get as close to possible as revenue being directly deposited into shareholders bank accounts.

  • hibikir 10 hours ago

    Note that even many of those "long knowledge" things people learned are today obsolete, but people that follow them just haven't figured it out yet. See how many of those object oriented design patters just look very silly the minute you use immutable data structures, and have access to functional programming constructs in your language. And nowadays most do. Many seminal books on how to program in the early 2000s, especially those covering "pure" OO, look quite silly today.

lelanthran 8 hours ago

> I've started a company in this space about 2 years ago. We are doing fine.

You have a positive cash flow from sales of agents? Your revenue exceeds your operating costs?

I've been very skeptical that it is possible to make money from agents, having seen how difficult it was for the current well-known players to do so.

What is your secret sauce?

  • nvader 4 hours ago

    Bumping for interest too. Would love to hear what you believe is correlated to success.

ramraj07 2 hours ago

Vehement disagree. We implemented our own context editing features 4 months back. Claude released a very similar featureset we had all along last month. We were still glad we did it because (A) it took me half a day to do that work (B) our solution is still more powerful for our use case (C) our solution works on other models as well.

It all comes down to trying to predict what will be your vendors' roadmap (or if youre savvy, get a peek into it) and whether the feature you want to create is fundamental to your applications behavior (I doubt encryption is unless youre a storage company).

gchamonlive 13 hours ago

I think knowing when to do nothing is being able to evaluate if the problem the team is tackling is essential or tangential to the core focus of the project, and also whether the problem is something new or if it's been around for a while and there is still no standard way to solve it.

  • gessha 12 hours ago

    Yeah, that will be the make it to brake it moment because if it’s too essential, it will be implemented but if it’s not, it may become a competitive advantage

nrhrjrjrjtntbt 3 hours ago

If you wait long enough in AI they may not need your agent they just use OpenAI directly.

  • DrewADesign 2 hours ago

    These days it seems like training yourself into a specialty that provides steadyish income for a year before someone obliterates your professional/corporate/field’s scaffolding with AI and you have to start over is kind of a win. Doesn’t it feel like a win? Look at the efficiency!

an0malous 12 hours ago

> These are not going to be problems tomorrow because the technology will shift. As it happened many time in the span of the last 2 years.

What technology shifts have happened for LLMs in the last 2 years?

  • dcre 12 hours ago

    One example is that there used to be a whole complex apparatus around getting models to do chain of thought reasoning, e.g., LangChain. Now that is built in as reasoning and they are heavily trained to do it. Same with structured outputs and tool calls — you used to have to do a bunch of stuff to get models to produce valid JSON in the shape you want, now it’s built in and again, they are specifically trained around it. It used to be you would have to go find all relevant context up front and give it to the model. Now agent loops can dynamically figure out what they need and make the tool calls to retrieve it. Etc etc.

    • mewpmewp2 9 hours ago

      LangChain generally felt pointless for me to use, not a good abstraction. It would rather keep you from the most important thing that you need in this fast evolving ecosystem, and it's direct prompt level (if you can even call that low level) understanding of what is going on.

  • postalcoder 12 hours ago

    If we expand this to 3 years, the single biggest shift that totally changed LLM development is the increase in size of context windows from 4,000 to 16,000 to 128,000 to 256,000.

    When we were at 4,000 and 16,000 context windows, a lot of effort was spent on nailing down text splitting, chunking, and reduction.

    For all intents and purposes, the size of current context windows obviates all of that work.

    What else changed?

    - Multimodal LLMs - Text extraction from PDFs was a major issue for rag/document intelligence. A lot of time was wasted trying to figure out custom text extraction strategies for documents. Now, you can just feed the image of a PDF page into an LLM and get back a better transcription.

    - Reduced emphasis on vector search. People have found that for most purposes, having an agent grep your documents is cheaper and better than using a more complex rag pipeline. Boris Cherny created a stir when he talked about claude code doing it that way[0]

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43163011#43164253

  • throwaway13337 11 hours ago

    I'm amazed at this question and the responses you're getting.

    These last few years, I've noticed that the tone around AI on HN changes quite a bit by waking time zone.

    EU waking hours have comments that seem disconnected from genAI. And, while the US hours show a lot of resistance, it's more fear than a feeling that the tools are worthless.

    It's really puzzling to me. This is the first time I noticed such a disconnect in the community about what the reality of things are.

    To answer your question personally, genAI has changed the way I code drastically about every 6 months in the last two years. The subtle capability differences change what sorts of problems I can offload. The tasks I can trust them with get larger and larger.

    It started with better autocomplete, and now, well, agents are writing new features as I write this comment.

    • GoatInGrey 8 hours ago

      The main line of contention is how much autonomy these agents are capable of handling in a competitive environment. One side generally argues that they should be fully driven by humans (i.e. offloading tedious tasks you know the exact output of but want to save time not doing) while the other side generally argues that AI agents should handle tasks end-to-end with minimal oversight.

      Both sides have valid observations in their experiences and circumstances. And perhaps this is simply another engineering "it depends" phenomenon.

    • bdangubic 11 hours ago

      the disconnect is quite simple, there are people that are professionals and are willing to put the time in to learn and then there’s vast majority of others who don’t and will bitch and moan how it is shit etc. if you can’t get these tools to make your job easier and more productive you ought to be looking for a different career…

      • overfeed 10 hours ago

        You're not doing yourself any favors by labeling people who disagree with you undereducated or uninformed. There is enough over-hyped products/techniques/models/magical-thinking to warrant skepticism. At the root of this thread is an argument to (paraphrasing) encouraging people to just wait until someone solves major problems instead of tackling it themselves. This is a broad statement of faith, if I've ever seen one, in a very religious sense: "Worry not, the researchers and foundation models will provide."

        My skepticism and intuition that AI innovations are not exponential, but sigmoid are not because I don't understand what gradient-descent, transformers, RAG, CoT, or multi-head attention are. My statement of faith is: the ROI economics are going to catch up with the exuberance way before AGI/ASI is achieved; sure, you're getting improving agents for now, but that's not going to justify the 12- or 13-digit USD investments. The music will stop, and improvements slow to a drip

        Edit: I think at it's root, the argument is between folk who think AI will follow the same curve as past technological trends, and those who believe "It's different this time".

      • siva7 10 hours ago

        It's disheartening. I got a colleague, very senior, who dislikes AI for a myriad of reasons and doesn't want to adapt if not forced by mgmt. I feel from 2022-2024 the majority of my colleagues were in this camp - either afraid from AI or because they looked at it as not something a "real" developer would ever use. 2025 it seemed to change a bit. American HN seemed to adapt more quickly while EU companies are still lacking the foresight to see what is happening on the grand scale.

        • wat10000 an hour ago

          I'm pretty senior and I just don't find it very useful. It is useful for certain things (deep code search, writing non-production helper scripts, etc.) and I'm happy to use it for those things, but it still seems like a long way off for it to be able to really change things. I don't foresee any of my coworkers being left behind if they don't adopt it.

    • [removed] 10 hours ago
      [deleted]
    • GiorgioG 11 hours ago

      Despite the latest and greatest models…I still see glaring logic errors in the code produced in anything beyond basic CRUD apps. They still make up fields that don’t exist, assign a value to a variable that is nonsensical. I’ll give you an example, in the code in question, Codex assigned a required field LoanAmount to a value from a variable called assessedFeeAmount…simply because as far as I can tell, it had no idea how to get the correct value from the current function/class.

      • lbreakjai 9 hours ago

        That's why I don't get people that claim to be letting an agent run for an hour on some task. LLMs tend to do so many small errors like that, that are so hard to catch if you aren't super careful.

        I wouldn't want to have to review the output of an agent going wild for an hour.

        • snoman 6 hours ago

          Who says anyone’s reviewing anything? I’m seeing more and more influencers and YouTubers playing engineer or just buying an app from an overseas app farm. Do you think anyone in that chain gives the first shit what the code is like?

          It’s the worst kind of disposable software.

    • nickphx 11 hours ago

      ai is useless. anyone claiming otherwise is dishonest

      • la_fayette 9 hours ago

        I use GenAI for text translation, text 2 voice and voice 2 text, there it is extremely useful. For coding I often have the feeling it is useless, but also sometimes it is useful, like most tools...

      • whattheheckheck 11 hours ago

        What are you doing at your job that ai can't help with at all to consider is completely use less?

      • ghurtado 11 hours ago

        That could even be argued (with an honest interlocutor, which you clearly are not)

        The usefulness of your comment, on the other hand, is beyond any discussion.

        "Anyone who disagrees with me is dishonest" is some kindergarten level logic.

      • ulfw 10 hours ago

        [Deleted as Hackernews is not for discussion of divergent opinions]

    • the_mitsuhiko 11 hours ago

      > EU waking hours have comments that seem disconnected from genAI. And, while the US hours show a lot of resistance, it's more fear than a feeling that the tools are worthless.

      I don't think it's because the audience is different but because the moderators are asleep when Europeans are up. There are certain topics which don't really survive on the frontpage when moderators are active.

      • jagged-chisel 11 hours ago

        I'm unsure how you're using "moderators." We, the audience, are all 'moderators' if we have the karma. The operators of the site are pretty hands-off as far as content in general.

        This would mean it is because the audience is different.

      • jamesblonde 8 hours ago

        Anything sovereign AI or whatever is gone immediately when the mods wake up. Got an EU cloud article? Publish it at 11am CET, it's disappears around 12.30.

  • deepdarkforest 11 hours ago

    On the foundational level, test time compute(reasoning), heavy RL post training, 1M+ plus context length etc.

    On the application layer, connecting with sandboxes/VM's is one of the biggest shifts. (Cloudfares codemode etc). Giving an llm a sandbox unlocks on the fly computation, calculations, RPA, anything really.

    MCP's, or rather standardized function calling is another one.

    Also, local llm's are becoming almost viable because of better and better distillation, relying on quick web search for facts etc.

  • WA 12 hours ago

    Not the LLMs. The APIs got more capabilities such as tool/function calling, explicit caching etc.

    • dcre 12 hours ago

      It is the LLMs because they have to be RLed to be good at these things.

  • echelon 12 hours ago

    We started putting them in image and video models and now image and video models are insane.

    I think the next period of high and rapid growth will be in media (image, video, sound, 3D), not text.

    It's much harder to adapt LLMs to solving business use cases with text. Each problem is niche, you have to custom tailor the solution, and the tooling is crude.

    The media use cases, by contrast, are low hanging fruit and result in 10,000x speedups and cost reductions almost immediately. The models are pure magic.

    I think more companies would be wise to ignore text for now and focus on visual domain problems.

    Nano Banana has so much more utility than agents. And there are so many low hanging fruit ways to make lots of money.

    Don't sleep on image and video. That's where the growth salient is.

    • wild_egg 12 hours ago

      > Nano Banana has so much more utility than agents.

      I am so far removed from multimedia spaces that I truly can't imagine a universe where this could be true. Agents have done incredible things for me and Nano Banana has been a cool gimmick for making memes.

      Anyone have a use case for media models that'll expand my mind here?

      • echelon 11 hours ago

        We now have capacity to program and automate in the optics, signals, and spatial domains.

        As someone in the film space, here's just one example: we are getting extremely close to being able to make films with only AI tools.

        Nano Banana makes it easy to create character and location consistent shots that adhere to film language and the rules of storytelling. This still isn't "one shot", and considerable effort still needs to be put in by humans. Not unlike AI assistance in IDEs requiring a human engineer pilot.

        We're entering the era of two person film studios. You'll undoubtedly start seeing AI short films next year. I had one art school professor tell me that film seems like it's turning into animation, and that "photorealism" is just style transfer or an aesthetic choice.

        The film space is hardly the only space where these models have utility. There are so many domains. News, shopping, gaming, social media, phone and teleconference, music, game NPCs, GIS, design, marketing, sales, pitching, fashion, sports, all of entertainment, consumer, CAD, navigation, industrial design, even crazy stuff like VTubing, improv, and LARPing. So much of what we do as humans is non-text based. We haven't had effective automation for any of this until this point.

        This is a huge percentage of the economy. This is actually the beating heart of it all.

nowittyusername 9 hours ago

I agree with the sentiment. things are moving so fast that waiting now is a legitimate strategy. though it is also easy to fall in to the trap of. well if we continue along these lines might as well wait 4-5 years and we get agi. which still true imo does feel off as you arent participating in the process.

sethev 7 hours ago

I suspect you're right, but it's a bit discouraging to consider that an alternative way of framing this is that companies like OpenAI have a huge advantage in this landscape and anything that works will end up behind their API.

toddmorey 7 hours ago

In some ways, the fact that the technology will shift is the problem as model behavior keeps changing. It's rather maddening unstable ground to build on. Really hard to gauge the impact to customer experience from a new model.

  • ares623 7 hours ago

    For a JS dev, it’s just another Tuesday

    • cheschire 7 hours ago

      Is JS dev really still so mercurial as it was 5 to 10 years ago? I'm not so sure. Back then, there would be a new topic daily about some new JS framework etc etc.

      I still occasionally see a blip of activity but I can't say it's anything like what we witnessed in the past.

      Though I will agree that gen AI trends feel reminiscent of that period of JS dev history.

      • snoman 7 hours ago

        If it is, it’s entirely self inflicted today. There’s some tentpole tech that is reliable enough to stick with and get things done. Has been for a while.

verdverm 8 hours ago

Vendor choice matters.

You could use the like of Amazon / Anthropic, or use Google who has had transparent disk encryption for 10+ years, and Gemini which already had the transparent caching discussed built in.

  • te_chris 8 hours ago

    If you’ve spent any time with the vertex LLM apis you wouldn’t be so enthusiastic about using Google’s platform (I say this as someone who prefers GCP to aws for compute and networking).

    • verdverm 6 hours ago

      been using it for years, no idea what you are getting at

      I've never had the downtime or service busy situations I've heard others complain about with other vendors.

      They did pricing based on chars back in the day, but now they are token based like everyone else.

      I like that they are building custom hardware that is industry leading in terms of limiting how much my AI usage impacts the environment.

      What do you think I shouldn't be enthusiastic about?

jFriedensreich 7 hours ago

exactly what my experience is too. we focus all our energy on the parts that will not be solved by someone else in a few months.

exe34 11 hours ago

if we wait long enough, we just end up dead, so it turns out we didn't need to do anything at all whatsoever. of course there's a balance - often times starting out and growing up with the technology gives you background and experience that gives you an advantage when it hits escape velocity.