Comment by arendtio

Comment by arendtio 3 days ago

7 replies

I wonder why they can't facilitate LLMs in the review process (like fighting fire with fire). Are even the best models not capable enough, or are the costs too high?

DroneBetter 3 days ago

the problem is generally the same as with generative adversarial networks; the capability to meaningfully detect some set of hallmarks of LLMs automatically is equivalent to the capability to avoid producing those, and LLMs are trained to predict (ie. be indistinguishable from) their source corpus of human-written text.

so the LLM detection problem is (theoretically) impossible for SOTA LLMs; in practice, it could be easier due to the RLHF stage inserting idiosyncrasies.

  • arendtio 2 days ago

    Sure, having a 100% reliable system is impossible as you have laid out. However, if I understand the announcement correctly, this is about volume, and I wonder if you could have a tool flag articles that show obvious signs of LLM usage.

    • warkdarrior a day ago

      The point is that this leads to an arms race. If Arxiv uses a top-of-line LLM for, say, 20 minutes per paper, cheating authors will use a top-of-line LLM for 21 minutes to beat that.

efavdb 3 days ago

Curious for the state on things here. Can we reliably tell if a text was LLM generated? I just heard of a prof screening assignments for this, but not sure how that would work.

  • arendtio 2 days ago

    Well, I think it depends on how much effort the 'writer' is going to invest. If the writer simply tells the LLM to write something, you can be fairly certain it can be identified. However, I am not sure if the 'writer' provides extensive style instructions (e.g., earlier works by the same author).

    Anecdotal: A few weeks ago, I came across a story on HN where many commenters immediately recognized that an LLM had written the article, and the author had actually released his prompts and iterations. So it was not a one-shot prompt but more like 10 iterations, and still, many people saw that an LLM wrote it.

  • jvanderbot 3 days ago

    Of course there are people who will sell you a tool to do this. I sincerely doubt it's any good. But then again they can apparently fingerprint human authors fairly well using statistics from their writing, so what do I know.

    • Al-Khwarizmi 2 days ago

      There are tools that claim accuracies in the 95%-99% range. This is useless for many actual applications, though. For example, in teaching, you really need to not have false positives at all. The alternative is failing some students because a machine unfairly marked their work as machine-generated.

      And anyway, those accuracies tend to be measured on 100% human-generated vs. 100% machine-generated texts by a single LLM... good luck with texts that contain a mix of human and LLM contents, mix of contents by several LLMs, or an LLM asked to "mask" the output of another.

      I think detection is a lost cause.