Comment by fidotron

Comment by fidotron 6 hours ago

11 replies

There's something odd in this argument. If you come at it from a Canadian perspective Canada seriously spent on neural network computer science when almost no one else did (many in AI considered the entire thing discredited and impossible), now the (financial) gains from that are almost entirely in a foreign country.

The US science establishment was all about buying and utilizing Russian rocket engines until he-that-shall-not-be-named came along. SpaceX took the breakthroughs that existed in the US in things like control theory, which the same science establishment had failed to value appropriately.

It doesn't look like the science establishments of any country are actually successfully feeding their innovation machines, or have done so for decades. Switching a non functioning system off does at least allow it to be replaced by something that risks doing things when something comes back.

Of course many pure scientists will, legitimately, argue that innovation isn't the point in the first place, and that is a far more solid point, but real academic diversity has been so destroyed by the global consensus making peer review process that much of their progress has effectively stalled.

unix_fan 6 hours ago

I’m blind, and participate in a lot of research projects to create accessible technology, which are mostly done by universities. What I have noticed as a foreigner participating with US based universities is that, a lot of this research while very high-quality and very well done does not actually result in anything that the intended audience gets to use or experience. And a lot of this is due to the amount of red tape, as well as a lack of risk taking. This means that without trying to go commercial a lot of these projects end up shelved and many potential users simply never see the benefits.

titanomachy 6 hours ago

Because talent and ideas move so easily between the US and Canada, any useful basic science that Canada comes up with will ultimately be monetized in the country with 10x the population, 15x the GDP, and 100x the stock market and VC funding depth.

This could start to change if present US hostility towards all things foreign results in a shift in investment and migration.

keenbrowne 6 hours ago

Research is necessary but not sufficient. Also need access to capital (and eventually capital markets) and a sufficiently sophisticated legal framework/safety framework so you can enforce contracts at least most the time. Good research is just a vehicle for producing knowledge and talent.

terminalshort 5 hours ago

Not only did SpaceX make breakthroughs considered impossible by the "experts" in the industry, they did it by hiring a guy who literally built rocket engines in his garage to design the engines. The key here is personality. And the type of person who actually wants to build things and get things done absolutely recoils at bureaucracy and the type of people who like it.

When you build something to the point where there is a bureaucratic "establishment" in control you can be sure that innovation slows to a crawl. You may still have a few individual scientists doing great work, but you can be sure that some miserable bureaucrat will pat him on the back and stick it in a drawer somewhere never to see the light of day again. The same is true whether that bureaucratic establishment is at a government or in universities, or any other type of bureaucratic organization.

nemomarx 6 hours ago

How's China doing? They seem to have a lot of research going on that feeds into their manufacturing fairly quickly from the papers I hear about

  • PaulHoule 6 hours ago

    Notably China is a big country and Canada is a small country. If there is some innovation that is going to improve productivity globally by %X the amount of benefit that goes to China is always going to be bigger than the benefit that goes to Canada.

  • fidotron 6 hours ago

    China are certainly better at turning the results of research into products, whether that research was them or anyone else.

    The canonical example here is 5G. Once again the US science establishment had the guy, he ends up doing the breakthroughs for polar coding, they failed to appreciate him, he left and ended up being funded by Huawei.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erdal_Ar%C4%B1kan

    The US science establishment isn't broken as an innovation engine because of Trump - it's because they're clearly rewarding the wrong things.

    What isn't so clear is if Chinese science is creating Chinese startups. It may yet happen.

    • treis 4 hours ago

      Eh, China is better at directing massive state level resources at incrementally improving technology. Nothing truly revolutionary has come out of China. The West is still ahead in that sort of stuff.

mplewis 6 hours ago

"real academic diversity" is doing all your lifting here

  • TimorousBestie 6 hours ago

    There’s not enough information to determine what the phrase is supposed to mean in context.