Comment by yobbo

Comment by yobbo 7 hours ago

7 replies

From an economist's perspective, energy is not typically recognised as a critical quantity. In so far as it is considered, it's thought of as an incidental property of some good or service being traded like oil or electricity.

But technological progress can be understood as successively more sophisticated ways of capturing and directing energy from natural processes. Economic growth has always occurred downstream of technologies that extract more energy or increase efficiency. Sheep, horses, windmills, coal, oil, nuclear ... etc.

Metrics like kWh per capita might become more interesting as the understanding of energy/growth matures. Or externally added energy (by electricity, oil, and fertiliser) per calorie of food.

To achieve growth while also reducing energy use, efficiency must be increased proportionately through technology. Electrification of transport (bc low thermodynamic efficiency of combustion engines) is an example of how we are doing this.

So even if technology continues to develop, unless efficiency grows faster than energy sources wane, there will only be economic degrowth.

StopDisinfo910 5 hours ago

> From an economist's perspective, energy is not typically recognised as a critical quantity.

Energy is a critical quantity in multiple subfields of economy including environmental economy where it's a core issue.

  • paganel 4 hours ago

    There’s also almost the entire economics-related work of Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen. From his Wikipedia page:

    > He is best known today for his 1971 magnum opus The Entropy Law and the Economic Process, in which he argued that all natural resources are irreversibly degraded when put to use in economic activity. A progenitor and a paradigm founder in economics, Georgescu-Roegen's work was decisive for the establishing of ecological economics as an independent academic sub-discipline in economics.

littlestymaar 2 hours ago

That's why I'm convinced Jean Baptiste Say is a much more insightful early economist than Riccardo.

carlosjobim 4 hours ago

> To achieve growth while also reducing energy use, efficiency must be increased proportionately through technology.

And that's something which happens thousands of times per day all over the world in different businesses and in almost all human endeavour. We're constantly getting more and more utility out of the material and energy we use. So growth is both using more resources, as well as using them in better ways.

  • bell-cot 3 hours ago

    For reducing energy use, social values matter at least as much as technology. Imagine if we had no better technology - but most people drove small cars instead of large SUV's and trucks, and jet plane trips were not routine for hundreds of millions of people.

    • JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago

      > and jet plane trips were not routine for hundreds of millions of people

      So lower standards of living.

      • bell-cot 2 hours ago

        Feel free to live in a modest-sized, well-insulated version of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Breakers with a live-in domestic staff serving your meals on solid gold plates.

        Or is your definition of luxury "performative wasting of energy"? If so, the lower the tech that you have access to, the better for the rest of humanity. :(