Comment by 4gotunameagain
Comment by 4gotunameagain 6 hours ago
[flagged]
Comment by 4gotunameagain 6 hours ago
[flagged]
Even if we assume, for the sake of argument, that Ukraine "was flirting with NATO". Why does that justify an invasion? Why do you think Ukraine or NATO or the US are at fault here?
Accepting that trying to get closer to NATO justifies this invasion, usually with the term "legitimate Russian security interests" denies Ukrainian sovereignty. Russia does not have the right to impose its will on its neighbours.
> Even if we assume, for the sake of argument, that Ukraine "was flirting with NATO". Why does that justify an invasion? Why do you think Ukraine or NATO or the US are at fault here?
Read up on Cuban missile crisis, it might provide some context.
No superpower has the right to impose its will on its neighbours, yet here we are : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...
You might want to take your own advice, because Cuba is the opposite of the example you're trying to make. The Cuban missile crisis was about nuclear weapons only. Cuba continued to host Soviet fighters, bombers, missile cruisers and many other conventional weapons until the dissolution of the USSR in 1991 - far, far beyond what any NATO member has seen after the Cold War, let alone potential candidates like Ukraine or Georgia.
You are right, I should have mentioned Operation Mongoose instead. The missile crisis was the culmination of the conflict, similar to the invasion of Ukraine.
Would the Bay of Pigs invasion had happened if Cuba was not courted by the USSR ?
> but after multiple warnings and casus belli about Ukraine not flirting with NATO
Putin invaded in 2014 after Ukraine deposed of their dictator over his failure to commit to EU alignment, the Nato stuff is a post-hoc excuse developed by the Russian government. This isn't about Nato it's about Putin being afraid of having working democracies next door.
Ukraine a working democracy ? Before the war it was one of the most corrupt countries in the European continent.
And by applying just a tiny bit of realism, is it feasible for a country right next to a colossal power to have independence ? Do all the small countries south of the US enjoy independence ?
> Ukraine a working democracy ?
Straw man.
Moscow is ruled by idiots. The war in Ukraine was perhaps the largest own goal of the millennium, ahead of Brexit and possibly right behind—worst case—the Iraq War.
> is it feasible for a country right next to a colossal power to have independence ?
Yes. Literally how alliances have worked since the Bronze Age.
> Straw man.
Nope. Challenge to presuppositions. The argument would be valid only if Ukraine was a threat of a "working democracy"
> Yes. Literally how alliances have worked since the Bronze Age.
Since we are now past the Bronze age could you give me a contemporary example of a small country close to the US that is practically independent and is not meddled with ?
> Moscow is ruled by idiots.
Putin might be a power hungry lunatic — like most leaders — but there is one thing that he certainly isn't, an idiot. Neither is Lavrov.
Putin lives in regret of the fall of the USSR in 1991, when he was stationed in Germany. He's bound to repeat the same.
So yes, he's an idiot.
Ps. Don't whataboutism power hungry Putin. There is literally no one worse.
https://disinfo.detector.media/en/post/how-russian-propagand...
Lord Ismay, the first Secretary General of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), reportedly observed that the purpose of the Alliance was to keep the Americans in Europe, the Russians out, and the Germans down.
https://www.nato.int/acad/conf/future95/rodman.htm