Comment by dotnet00

Comment by dotnet00 3 days ago

23 replies

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This is such a cruel perspective, implying that he'd be better off dead, for what, 3 years of inconvenience to his community, despite the previous 80 years being spent contributing positively to it?

You even literally show that he isn't solely remembered for those last 3 years of his life. We owe people like that care and understanding, not murder framed as mercy.

It's always so painful to see old people around who are clearly living alone, forced to do everything themselves, having to ask strangers for help because they're afraid of being a burden, and their actual children can't find time for them. Only to now see people actually supporting murder because old people become a burden for a couple of years near the end of their life.

troad 13 hours ago

Thank you for saying this. It's not a popular view, but it is the correct one.

> You really don't want to end up with dementia and related illnesses, it totally sours everyone's view of you.

I don't think I've read a wilder defense of euthanasia in my entire life.

This is a "great guy" who committed his life to teaching kids, being a good neighbour, and his reward is one of his former pupils arguing he ought to be killed because he's grown unwell, he's unable to maintain his optics, and the community he gave his life to has therefore 'soured' on him. How very inconvenient for you, that this man is unwell.

What message is this supposed to send to anyone? "Don't get invested in trying to be nice to the neighbours, they're all ghouls who'll have you shipped to the glue factory as soon as you stop seeming useful." And once everyone internalises this level of social atomism, where do you expect these 'great guys' to keep coming from?

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joelwilliamson 3 days ago

He’d be dead either way, the question is if having those three years were a net improvement to his life

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  • bhl 3 days ago

    Not for us to question or answer though.

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  • account42 a day ago

    Putting that up for discussion makes the world worse than any suffering that may be experienced during that time.

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  • dotnet00 3 days ago

    By that logic we should invoke the death penalty for everyone who has been sentenced to life in prison and has exhausted all their appeals, or any seniors convicted of a crime.

    Their life probably won't improve anymore, and in the latter case they're going to die in a few years anyway, so might as well just lighten the load on society?

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    • esafak 3 days ago

      No, you'd let them decide if they want to die.

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  • ipaddr 3 days ago

    3 years living vs dying is a 3 year net improvement on life. Such silly statement.

    By your logic we should kill everyone at their peak.

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    • prmoustache 3 days ago

      I've known at least 2 old persons who were literally looking forward to their death because of chronic pain and general boredom and frustration of requiring 24h/7 assistance and not being able to live the way they used to.

      They would have likely used assisted suicide if it had been an option back then.

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      • ipaddr 2 days ago

        In this case man doesn't want to die but others are suggesting it to make it easier on society.

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        • account42 a day ago

          Which is really the scariest part about this while discussion. Already plenty NPCs repeating how expensive it is to keep old people alive, it's not a matter of time until old people will be encouraged to make the right choice - or have it made for them if they are not capable of making it.

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    • hannofcart 3 days ago

      On the contrary, I urge you to consider whether it is your statement that is overly dismissive. Is there perhaps some existing conditioning, maybe in the form of religious upbringing that is driving your reaction to this? Many of us in fact find OP's a very thoughtful comment than a "silly statement".

      > By your logic we should kill everyone at their peak.

      No, they suggested that the old and ailing whose quality of life has deteriorated to the point where there is no hope or no more joy in living, ought to be given the choice.

      Let me end by quoting my favourite lines from the HN guidelines:

      "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

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      • imtringued 3 days ago

        The problem is on your end.

        Consider the following scenarios:

        There is a red button that orders your euthanasia. Pressing it instantly teleports you to a euthanasia facility and leads to your death unless you say no within 30 seconds. The button reads your fingerprint and can only be pressed by you. (Assume science fiction level technology to make this true)

        1. The button is located 5000 km away from you in an unknown location.

        2. The location is known.

        3. You can order the delivery of the button to you for $50

        4. The button is in your basement

        5. The button is next to your bed

        6. The button is on your keyboard and mouse

        7. The button is on your keychain

        Now consider there is a blue button with the same rules as above, which makes you feel compelled to press the first button for a day and it can be pressed by anyone.

        You'd want the red button as far away from you as possible and the blue button secured in a location that is as inaccessible to others as possible.

        In today's society there are too many people obsessed with pressing blue buttons. Also, pressing blue buttons is not a crime, because red buttons happen to be pretty far away from most people.

        But now there are people obsessed with pressing red buttons. They want to ship the red button to your house on your behalf, while thinking they are doing you a favor.

        This would be okay if the blue button pressing people were a minority and there was a punishment for pressing blue buttons, but it turns out both positions are popular and when averaged together, the buttons will be placed next to each other, thereby turning the blue button into a second red button.

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      • ipaddr 2 days ago

        They are suggesting a man who is making life hard on others should die for society which I think is wrong. No one is saying that those who choose to die shouldn't have that choice rather it's not society who should be making the choice.

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    • procaryote 3 days ago

      In medical research on treatments the outcome is often measured in quality adjusted years of life, because just keping people alive at any cost is a bad metric.

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    • raw_anon_1111 3 days ago

      3 years of living in constant pain - not saying it’s the case here - is not better than being dead to some people.

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    • anigbrowl 3 days ago

      That's literally a one-dimensional analysis. Are you sure you're not missing any other relevant factors?I find it hard to believe you uncritically think 'more = better' in every context.

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      • ipaddr 2 days ago

        More doesn't equal better but it is no one choice but the person. Not society or the medical system assigning a quality of life score.

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    • ReptileMan 3 days ago

      A beautiful woman dies twice as the old saying goes.

      While what you say is extreme there is a point in the decline past which there is no point of living. If you have something worth living for - cling to life and to 107 if you like. But if the only thing that waits you is to slowly decay and fade and lose yourself - what is the point?

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anonzzzies 3 days ago

But this guy wanted to die right? Bit different. Agreed that 'how others view you' is such nonsense. People are cruel that way and also: those children who couldn't be bothered visiting or helping out, will be standing at the funeral sniffling and telling 'such great dad stories'. Makes my blood boil.

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