Comment by bojan

Comment by bojan 12 hours ago

As someone who learned Dutch from scratch in adulthood, these points come up very often but I don't think they are true.

1) Dutch is not an easy language to learn if you speak English. Both the grammar and the vocabulary are way closer to German than to English. The grammar works in a different way, there is an actual grammatical gender, the vowels sound different, etc.

2) There is a lot of content to consume. Let's just start with programming oriented to older children, like the Klokhuis or Jeugdjournaal, which are both in simple language and interesting to adults as well. It's really all there.

3) when taking to people, they want to have a conversation and will switch to a language where that goal can be reached. If people consistently switch to English to you, the sad fact is that your pronunciation and/or grammar are not good enough yet, and you can't assume that the role of random people is to be your teachers.

usrnm 11 hours ago

I learned several languages as an adult, so I compare the effort needed to learn Dutch to the effort needed to learn a much more different language, like French.

1) Yes, Dutch is even closer to German, but it doesn't change the fact that it's very close to English. The grammar is very close, a lot of words are clearly related, learning to read Dutch when you are already profficient in English is a breeze. I never said they were mutually intelligible, but they are close enough to make the leap from one to the other much simpler.

Just as an example, let's consider three words from three different languages that mean the same thing: "gestolen", "volé" and "украденный". Which one of them is closer to the English word "stolen"? Not only in its stem form, but even in the way this irregular verb is conjugated.

2) Some content does exist, but not much. Again, comparing to a language with a much bigger speaker base, like French, let alone English. The difference is orders of magnitude, it's very noticeable when trying to find something interesting to watch or listen.

3) Every time I go to a country where English is less prevalent, I'm forced to learn and practice the language. The same pressure just does not exist in the Netherlands, and the sad fact is, people do not like making unnecessary effort. It is an obstacle and it doesn't help, no matter how you look at it

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bojan 8 hours ago

1) Dutch may be easier to learn for English speakers than, say, French, but it's not easy. Learning it to the point that you can have a naturally flowing conversation with a native is still very difficult for an average person. To go on with your example of gestolen, yes, that sounds easy, but it gets harder very fast. To use a horrible stereotype that is still a very simple sentence, Vandaag gestolen morgen in Polen is not easy to interpret even if you correctly deduce that Polen is Poland. Further, being a native speaker of another Slavic language I could guess what your Russian example mean, but without knowing, I wouldn't put money on it. Does brood mean bread or has it to do with brooding? Once you know, it's easy, but you still have to learn.
2) Obviously there's a huge difference in available content compared to bigger languages. But I do think there's enough, especially if you're not too picky (and you shouldn't be if your goal is to learn the language).
3) it is true that English proficiency is more prevalent in the Netherlands than elsewhere. People don't like making unnecessary effort anywhere, and even if they do, the conversation turns into a lesson, which is I guess not generally desirable.

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