Comment by Jnr

Comment by Jnr 7 hours ago

19 replies

As someone who has modeled in 3DSMax and Blender using the mesh modeling approach and in Fusion360 and FreeCAD using the CAD modeling approach, for 3D printing I really recommend learning CAD modeling in FreeCAD.

The ability to make models precise, constrained and and parameterised more easily allows going back to previous steps to make adjustments.

For 3D printing it is very helpful to be able to change a defined variable and have the whole model recalculated. I often use variables for clearance, screw hole diameters, etc.

Recently FreeCAD has become very good and I have switched to it. And there are a lot of great FreeCAD tutorials on Youtube.

maybewhenthesun 5 hours ago

Since blender has Geometry Nodes (and especially the more recent versions of those) I make all my parametrized models in blender.

True, it's a bit more hassle to setup and way less standardized. And it's not really the right tool for the job. And the models are less re-usable.

But.... I use blender a lot for other stuff and it's a joy to use. Freecad otoh feels like a confusing mess to me (probably because I don't use it often enough, but still...)

I'd love if Freecad would go through it's own 'blender 2.5 release' phase where someone would prune the UI.

  • Jnr 3 hours ago

    They only recently (a year ago) released v1 of FreeCAD.

    Blender 2.5 came out ~15 years ago, and as I was learning Blender in 2010/2011 it did not feel nearly as good as it does now. I believe that something similar could happen with FreeCAD, as I tried it some years ago and it was unusable in my opinion, but now I can work with it without any major issues. And the more attention they get, the better it will become.

    • whizzter an hour ago

      I think GP is referring to the 2.9 release (or was it 2.8 or 3.0?) that had a major UI overhaul a few years back, I would say that the real explosion of Blender usage co-incided with that release.

      Coming from 3ds, 3dsmax and Lightwave mainly (some Maya), I had previously tried Blender a couple of times and usually rage-quite within 15 minutes due to the flaky-feeling UI.

      After actually using that big UI release I went back to the previous major release to see what I had missed.

      The general context (mesh mode->mesh edit->vertices) that in newer releases is placed somewhat in a sane order, was placed so that your major context was selected in the _middle of the screen_, then secondary was at the top and tertiary somewhere else.

      That's just a big no-no in terms of UI design but had probably made some sense when Blender evolved and people who got used to Blender had probably internalized it (and staunchly defended it).

jon-wood an hour ago

I think this depends what you're 3D printing. I'm almost always making utilitarian things with specific purposes so CAD modelling makes sense, I know what dimensions I need, and what constraints exist, if I were modelling figures for a tabletop RPG it would be an absolute nightmare though. As ever, right tool for the job.

argomo 6 hours ago

Au contraire... FreeCAD has a confounding UI, except for the sketcher.

  • ansgri 4 hours ago

    For me the problem is less the UI but weird bugs / unimplemented cases in its modeling kernel. Some lofts and tubes just refuse to work for no apparent (to me, a non-expert in CAD) reason. Even worse, simple fillets sometimes don't work as expected on moderately complicated bodies. Maybe if you're an expert you can avoid these case, but it's extremely frustrating to spend several hours successfully modeling the general shape only to be unable to apply simple dress-up features.

    I'd really like to use it and master it further, but CAD is not something I need often, and in F360 any geometry I've needed just works.

  • Jnr 5 hours ago

    It is far from perfect, but it is quite usable now. https://i.imgur.com/4CezlnJ.png

    • _flux an hour ago

      This is not a release version, though, is it? Or has some additional extensions on top of it?

      I've had bad experiences on the latter, as in a lot of breakage occurred :/.

RugnirViking 6 hours ago

to be fair, I did do exactly as you described, and im glad I had both under my belt. But the amount of bs you can get when doing exactly that, "going back and changing a previous step" can be very annoying. Changing dimensions or previous sketches is usually fine, but anything more complicated often results in everything in your stack breaking with strange errors, leading it to just be easier to re-create the model. For many of my more complex mechanisms, ive made the entire thing three or more times

  • jacquesm 6 hours ago

    I use OpenSCAD for parametric stuff and it has served me very well, even if it has a learning curve and some serious limitations. The trick is to stop thinking interactively and to treat the shapes you want to make in a more generative manner. For instance, you could try to fillet or chamfer an edge, or you could create that edge using a sphere or a shape tracing a path and then tying it all together with a hull. But it can take a while before you become adept at seeing how shapes decompose into simpler shapes.

    • [removed] 4 hours ago
      [deleted]
    • ur-whale 6 hours ago

      If you like to code, OpenSCAD is really the best for simple shapes and my go-to tool for these situations, stuff like making a project box for an electronic contraption.

      OpenSCAD however fails spectacularly for any kind of complex filetting situation when compared to tools like Fusion or even FreeCAD (FreeCAD's UI is an abomination though).

      The morphological ops in OpenSCAD (minkowski type stuff) are a very poor substitute to real fillets, and are extremely slow (underlying algos are all polynomials in number of triangles) when your objects get complex, and they are global operations, it is extremely hard to limit their action to a localized part of your object.

      Even Blender, which was truly never designed for this type of operations can sometimes do better than OpenSCAD for fillets.

      Another thing that's a real pain in OpenSCAD: you cannot "probe" (measure) your existing object at a certain stage, grab the result of that measurement and re-use it in the rest of the code. MAJOR limitation.

      • danielheath 5 hours ago

        I've long imagined something comparable in use to OpenSCAD, but where the primitives are tool-paths rather than shapes; you specify the cuts (or prints) the machine will make, and get a render of how the material will look afterwards.

        This would, of course, be a great hassle to use, but I think I'd really enjoy being able to eg preview the texture different tool heads / cut patterns would leave. I imagine thinking in terms of "how the machine will cut this" would also improve my ability to reason about the machine.

      • robk 5 hours ago

        I never understood why this is such a deal breaker. I just export The stl from Openscad then do fillets in Fusion. It's another step but usually only a few mins of clicking.

      • jacquesm 5 hours ago

        > OpenSCAD however fails spectacularly for any kind of complex filetting situation when compared to tools like Fusion or even FreeCAD (FreeCAD's UI is an abomination though).

        I've never had a problem with this, but I build up from the ground with the edges the way I want them to be. The reason many people struggle with this is that they start from 'hard' primitives such as cubes and triangles and then they want to process the edges once the rough shape is there. That's all but impossible. But you don't have to do it that way at all.

        > The morphological ops in OpenSCAD (minkowski type stuff) are a very poor substitute to real fillets, and are extremely slow (underlying algos are all polynomials in number of triangles) when your objects get complex, and they are global operations, it is extremely hard to limit their action to a localized part of your object.

        That's because they're used as 'after the fact' tools. It's a bit like trying to change the shape of a folded piece of metal after the fact. It's much easier to shape it right the first time than to 'fix' it later on.

        When I start working on a shape like that I use a truncated cube rotated 45/45/0, place copies of that cube on the vertices of the shape I want and then cover the whole thing with a hull. Instant chamfer. If I want to use fillets I'll use a sphere. That's much easier than to first create an arrangement of cubes and other primitives and then to decide where I want the fillets to go. Picking those initial shapes for the corners is the tricky part, after that it is very quick to make (and change) objects. I've done some pretty complex shapes like this, fully parametric that would have cost me days with a traditional workflow.

        > Another thing that's a real pain in OpenSCAD: you cannot "probe" (measure) your existing object at a certain stage, grab the result of that measurement and re-use it in the rest of the code. MAJOR limitation.

        Yes, agreed, this kind of second order primitive is not possible. I understand the reason for it (and the reason why you can't change variables on the fly) and it is a serious drawback. This makes it very hard to relate two non-trivial shapes to each other. Interactive CAD programs are better for things like that, but there - usually - the kind of change that takes a second in OpenSCAD means a whole pile of manual work. So my recipe is to stick to OpenSCAD for those things that I think I can make with it and to use an interactive tool for everything else.

        One thing that OpenSCAD excels at is remixing stuff based on existing STLs, I've yet to find another tool that allows me to do that so easily and with such versatility. Before my 'serious' cad tools have imported a mesh the OpenSCAD workflow is already printing the remixed result. As with everything: the right tool for the job is the key.

  • Jnr 6 hours ago

    Going back in history works better in Fusion360 than FreeCAD currently, but...

    In FreeCAD it works but you have to think a bit how you approach it. For example, if you reference an edge that you later on go back and delete, of course it will break things. Also if everything is not correctly constrained and you go back and edit it, it will likely break things. And then there are some bugs as well, but it's free and open source so I am not complaining. :)

    Similarly as with mesh modeling, where correct modeling style is needed for smoothing not to break things, with CAD you also have to get used to certain approach to modeling, you can't be as chaotic.

    But the more you do it, the better you will become and in my opinion learning proper CAD modeling approach is easier than proper mesh modeling in Blender.