Comment by bythreads

>building, bundling, ES modules, the whole NPM ecosystem.

That's evolved hand in hand with the React monoculture over the past 10-15 years, maybe by way of a project called Babel.

Babel set out to provide progressive enhancement for the original ES5 to ES6 migration, and then in classic POSIWID fashion began to thrive on a suite of a la carte incompatibilities.

That experience is as much a contributor to the current automatism to to reach for (non-configurable) Prettier and Eslint, as any rogue devs imposing fell coding styles might be.

So yeah, plenty of things in JS infra that look like they've been designed to be a pain in the ass (a.k.a. "behavioral nudge", towards TS, what else) and very much seem like the result of more inept moat-building in the then-newly ballooning field of frontend dev.

Readers might look up whan an import map is sometime, as well as where it is and isn't supported. How TS handled ES modules at the time Node16 changed their ESM support. Does ESM `default` correspond to CJS `module` or `module.exports`? Room for vendors to fuck up in innovative ways all round, this whole rotten ecosystem.

Try Deno. On Node, try Vite for frontend.

brenainn 3 hours ago

I like lit. I'm not primarily a web developer and I've found it intuitive and easy to read and write. What I find more confusing than frameworks is building, bundling, ES modules, the whole NPM ecosystem.

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balamatom 9 minutes ago

>building, bundling, ES modules, the whole NPM ecosystem.
That's evolved hand in hand with the React monoculture over the past 10-15 years, maybe by way of a project called Babel.
Babel set out to provide progressive enhancement for the original ES5 to ES6 migration, and then in classic POSIWID fashion began to thrive on a suite of a la carte incompatibilities.
That experience is as much a contributor to the current automatism to to reach for (non-configurable) Prettier and Eslint, as any rogue devs imposing fell coding styles might be.
So yeah, plenty of things in JS infra that look like they've been designed to be a pain in the ass (a.k.a. "behavioral nudge", towards TS, what else) and very much seem like the result of more inept moat-building in the then-newly ballooning field of frontend dev.
Readers might look up whan an import map is sometime, as well as where it is and isn't supported. How TS handled ES modules at the time Node16 changed their ESM support. Does ESM `default` correspond to CJS `module` or `module.exports`? Room for vendors to fuck up in innovative ways all round, this whole rotten ecosystem.
Try Deno. On Node, try Vite for frontend.

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