Comment by gottorf 14 hours ago
> get them to stop actively voting against their own interests
Such a tired trope that I wish would stop. The whole point of a plural democracy is that people will have different interests, and there are few things that rub me the wrong way more than the idea that people are too stupid to recognize what their own interests are and vote accordingly.
what do they call it when a lot of the people in the state don't vote because of a history of disenfranchisement? or when power is taken away from groups of people due to redistricting? when many people can't get to the polls because it's far away or they have work? and when the absentee ballot process is hard? or when they purge the voter registration, requiring people to re-register, if they realize it before it's too late? this last one happened to me.
less than 60% of eligible voters in the state cast a vote in the 2024 election. there was lower turnout in 2024 election among black voters. here is more data: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidentia...
what do you call it when both candidates aren't good enough for those people, so they resign to not vote?
what do you call it when college-educated liberals disparage the poorest, blackest state in the union? definitely not progressive. maybe "racist"
While I share your frustration can I also share with you that I think your original take is entirely dim-witted and ignorant that populations are not singular voting blocs? That's to say, I lived in Texas for a long time as a leftist and people like you would come in to dunk on our suffering. Nearly half the state votes Democrat but that didn't matter to folks like you. It's unproductive and isolates more people than it gratifies.
There is a huge difference between accepting someone’s opinion about supply side economics or US foreign policy or heck even abortion rights than “understanding” someone who doesn’t believe that people shouldn’t be treated equally and with respect because of the color of their skin, their sexuality, etc.
I’m from South GA and spent all of my adult life until 3 years ago in Atlanta. I live in another red state now - Florida. I’ve spent enough time in the bigger cities in Texas to have a feel for it. Alabama and Mississippi are just…different.
> “understanding” someone who doesn’t believe that people shouldn’t be treated equally and with respect because of the color of their skin, their sexuality, etc.
Can you steelman the culturally conservative viewpoint? I find this to be a big blind spot in today's progressive thinkers; i.e. it's hard for someone in that camp to explain why anyone would have voted for Trump, without dipping into the "they know not what they're voting for" or "they're just ignorant, racist, and hateful" buckets.
> Alabama and Mississippi are just…different.
I'm a visibly nonwhite immigrant who moved to one of those "different" states from a large coastal metro. I'm not treated any worse or differently in society.
Perhaps the biggest disparity I've noticed is that the Old South still believes that it's good for society for people of various backgrounds to assimilate to one central culture, whereas the more cosmopolitan metros seem to have declared assimilation as an imposition on minority groups.
I believe the former to be the correct position, and closer to the original "liberal" belief that anybody, no matter what they look like, will be treated equally as long as they are willing to play by the same rules. The latter viewpoint to me is very much like "separate but equal"; no one cultural group has any say over another, and there is not one standard set of behaviors that everyone is expected to conform to, because differences are valued over unity.
It has been fascinating to see, as someone with an outsider's background, the realignment of political thought over the past decade or two.
> Can you steelman the culturally conservative viewpoint? I find this to be a big blind spot in today's progressive thinkers; i.e. it's hard for someone in that camp to explain why anyone would have voted for Trump, without dipping into the "they know not what they're voting for" or "they're just ignorant, racist, and hateful" buckets.
I can’t possibly steel man why someone thinks it’s their right to tell another adult why they shouldn’t be able to date or marry who they choose whether it be someone of the same sex or someome of a different color. Liberty University just recently lifted the ban on interracial dating.
I am not saying everyone who voted for Trump is a racist. I hear some of the things that come from Democrats and I can perfectly understand why some traditional Republicans hold their nose and vote for Trump because the alternative is worse.
> I'm not treated any worse or differently in society.
And being an immigrant in the US (along as you aren’t Hispanic) is a completely different experience than being Black. I’ve moved to Florida now.
Have you spent time in “their spaces”? Have you gone to a White Evangelical church? Have your kids tried dating their kids?
Again I’m not saying “all white people are racist” far from it. I’ve tried to even distinguish between “George Bush”/“Mitt Romney”/“John McCain” conservatives and wherever the hell is going on now.
I lived in what was a famous “Sundown town” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundown_town) until the early 90s. I didn’t move there until 2016 when I had a house built in the burbs. My six foot two 230 pound+ stepson who has lived in the burbs all of his life often got questioned walking down the street of our own neighborhood and when he went to the community pool.
> Perhaps the biggest disparity I've noticed is that the Old South still believes that it's good for society for people of various backgrounds to assimilate to one central culture, whereas the more cosmopolitan metros seem to have declared assimilation as an imposition on minority groups.
To be blunt, I don’t have to assimilate shit and neither does a gay person who wants to walk around with their partner just to make other people comfortable or any other non white/non straight person.
If you have an accent, of course they are going to be respectful to your face. But they are going to complain just like they complain when people are speaking Spanish to each other.
Another anecdote, now I live in a resort area in Florida upstairs from a bar that is all tourist besides us (long story). Every Friday and Saturday night, they have karaoke and a live DJ. It’s mostly your standard non offensive top 40 music from the last 20-25 years.
Around 10 o clock, a large Latin American group came. I was already talking to a guy from Puerto Rico. The DJ started playing a Latin playlist and they all started dancing, there was another group there from Alabama and you could just see the looks on their faces.
My wife and I (Black) hung around, my wife started dancing with them, I used my A2 level (https://www.colegioespana.com/en/levels-of-spanish-language/) barely fluent Spanish to talk to some of them who didn’t speak English.
They also didn’t owe it to anyone to “assimilate” and they appreciated the effort that I made.
Well it’s true. The cuts to healthcare and other budget cuts are going to hurt people in Mississippi more than California.
If you ask them why they vote the way they do, it’s because their “interest” or some combination of Trump was sent by God, we must save Isreal so Jesus will have a place to come back to (I don’t have an opinion about Isreal, I just think that’s a crazy reason), evil immigrants and something something “fighting woke idealogy”.
Can you name a single modern Republican policy that would help people in Mississippi?
And I emphasize modern because nothing about today’s national Republican Party resembles the one I’ve known from 1980-2016 or even between 2016-2020 when many held the line against some of the craziness.
And if your response is Democrats have also gone too far in the other direction and out of touch, you won’t get any argument out of me.
Your right that interests are varied but to be more specific, what's being pointed out is that people are manipulated into focusing on an emotional interest (hating woke or whatever the current thing is) so that they'll vote against their practical (economic) interests. It's a perennial marshmallow test failure.
I think everyone has an interest in supporting their addiction to food and shelter.
Yet for the most part, the most Republican leading states are the poorest and already have the largest imbalance of tax and flows versus tax outflows…
You don’t think California and New York contribute less to the government than they receive?
They aren’t being “manipulated”. This is no different than the old “Segregation Now. Segregation Tomorrow. Segregation Forever.” George Wallace inauguration in the 1960s.
The south has always cared more about culture wars than their own self interest.
FWIW: I have lived in the south all 51 years of my life - GA until 3 years ago and now Florida.
> The south has always cared more about culture wars than their own self interest.
Another way of saying that they[0] value preserving their culture more than economic or financial concerns, is it not?
[0]: Insofar as any group of people can be generalized, of course.
It may rub you the wrong way, but it's happened many times throughout history. Paradox of tolerance and all.