Comment by fsaid

Comment by fsaid a day ago

26 replies

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Waymo should add a thin layer of "assertiveness" for actual deadlock that their self-driving architecture could cause.

While in Austin, I was in a Waymo that blocked 3 lanes of incoming traffic while attempting to merge into a lane going into the opposite direction. It was a super unorthodox move, but none of the drivers (even while stopped for a red light) would let the Waymo* merge into their lane.

Thank God for the tinted windows, people were pulling their phones out to record (rightly so). It felt like I was responsible for holding up a major portion of Austin 5 pm traffic on a Friday.

Wish it just asserted itself ever-so-slightly to get itself out.

skybrian a day ago

According to this article, they are doing some of that already. Presumably it will improve:

> Waymos are getting more assertive. Why the driverless taxis are learning to drive like humans

https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/waymo-robotaxis-drivi...

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raldi 21 hours ago

What does it mean to “merge into a lane going into the opposite direction”?

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dgs_sgd a day ago

I think we're going to see more examples of this as Waymo's popularity grows. Basically human drivers taking advantage of Waymo's far more passive driving style. Maybe some rules of the road will have to change, or the Waymos will get dedicated lanes to solve this problem.

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  • freeone3000 a day ago

    Imagine if we had dedicated lanes for giant Waymos, that could hold dozens of people. The future of transport.

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    • crazygringo a day ago

      You joke, but the reality is going to be dynamic self-driving buses that don't have preset routes or stops but respond to instant demand.

      You'll pay $$$ for a nonstop ride into midtown in a dedicated vehicle, or $ for a short dedicated ride to a self-driving bus you only need to wait a few minutes for, and which will drop you off on your destination block.

      So yes -- self-driving buses seamlessly integrated into ride sharing are certainly going to be a major part of 21st century urban transportation. Which will save a ton of time compared to current buses.

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      • buu700 a day ago

        I could also see potential efficiencies to scheduling your bus stops in advance, maybe with some configuration to set how far you're willing to walk, how long you're willing to wait, how long a grace period you want in the event that you're running late, what time you need to arrive by, how many seats you need, and whether or not you need access to luggage/bike storage. (Each of these values would of course impact the cost of your trip; in the worst case scenario, if your configuration couldn't be reconciled with enough other people's to fit you into an efficient bus ride, then you might just be offered a regular car ride.)

        You could even set that up on a recurring schedule, sort of like a school bus system that dynamically adjusts to everyone's locations and requirements and instantly remaps routes as passengers are added and removed to the schedule.

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    • thfuran a day ago

      You need to think bigger. Once we have separate lanes just for the waymos, we don't need them to be regular roadways. We can scale up the waymo even more and size the lane exactly to the vehicle, maybe even radically redesign the road surface for lower rolling resistance. What a future it will be.

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      • poemxo a day ago

        We could even install metal rails into the ground to meet this rolling resistence requirement.

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      • mlsu a day ago

        This is surely impossible. Such a thing has never been tried, it could never work.

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      • Traubenfuchs a day ago

        By forming those waymos like aerodynamic bullets, they could reach ridiculously high speeds on those special lanes. Something like 200 mph should be possible.

        Maybe the waymos could be powered by overhead wires?

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    • dgs_sgd a day ago

      I would like that just as much as the next guy but the problem of public transport cannot be addressed until you first address the problem of anti social behavior on public transport.

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      • freeone3000 a day ago

        That’s just being around people. We gotta live together as people; the idea that we can atomize ourselves away from the society we live in is more disastrous to the shared social fabric than any amount of people listening to music without headphones.

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    • lotsofpulp 10 hours ago

      One of the big, big advantages of Waymo is not being in a car with a stranger. I know quite a few women who don’t mind paying extra for Waymo over Uber/Lyft.

      Far more people might able to afford a Waymo than a personal (in person) chauffeur.

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    • stuxnet79 a day ago

      This already exists outside of America and is abundant and cheap. It's called public transit.

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      • dmd a day ago

        that was the joke, yes

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      • astrange a day ago

        Public transit doesn't always have dedicated lanes. That's BRT.

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    • Aaronstotle a day ago

      Imagine if we went further and put them on rails and interconnected them. Maybe even built dedicated tunnels for them.

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trhway a day ago

>Waymo should add a thin layer of "assertiveness"

well, just couple weeks ago here on the intersection of Middlefield and Shoreline, half-mile from Google headquarters - 100 million times driven by Waymo cars, thousands by us - midday, perfect visibility, perfect intersection with all the markings, lights, etc., we and a Waymo are doing left turns from dedicated lanes on the opposite directions. We were saved from head on collision by the "lack of assertiveness" on the part of my wife as she swerved last moment as the Waymo apparently decided that its left turn point lies way into, very deep into, our trajectory, and it was assertive enough to not care that we were in its path. I almost soiled my pants upon seeing how it went for barreling into us instead of turning.

It looks like the same extra assertiveness like with Uber back then - i.e. to not have an emergency braking and similar features because it gets too much false positives.

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  • fsaid a day ago

    Yeah I admit that "assertiveness" isn't the right word here. I've been in Waymo's that have also tried to dangerous moves in front off busses. Maybe "conscientiousness" would be a better definition?

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kjkjadksj a day ago

I find that in LA people routinely cut off the waymo or refuse to let it in. After all why not it is a robot, not someone who might legitimately harm you like a road rager. It also tends to fail the cultural left turns. That is, sending 2-3 cars left during yellow not just one like in other places. Seeing it stuck awkwardly in an intersection for another cycle from failing to make an assertive left turn is somewhat common.

Waymo also avoids certain challenging environments by excluding it from its service coverage, namely hilly neighborhoods.

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xyst a day ago

This is awful. Your ride takes just a bit longer, so you want it to take more risks in decisions?

This is how you ruin trust. Take the L dude, sit back and relax. You will get to your restaurant or whatever inane activity you are doing for the day/evening.

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