Comment by linguae

Comment by linguae 2 days ago

12 replies

View on Hacker News

On the BSD side there has been efforts such as helloSystem (https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/) and rayvnOS (https://ravynos.com/) that aim to provide a FOSS recreation of the Jobs-era Mac OS X experience. Both can be considered BSDs as opposed to mere desktop environments. helloSystem uses X11 and Qt, while rayvnOS uses its own version of Cocoa.

However, it’s been a few years since I’ve seriously investigated these projects, and a cursory glance at them shows that they still have a while to go before they become replacements for existing desktop Linux environments. Both are rather ambitious passion projects from their creators, similar to Haiku, a re-creation of BeOS.

philistine 2 days ago

Both those projects can only go skin deep. The macOS experience is not only how it looks, but the depth of its interactivity and the thoughtful implementations within that depth.

I still shudder when I see the limitations of dragging files in Windows. The fact I can drag a folder to a save dialog to jump to that folder is so natural to me, and Windows and Linux never bothered with those details.

Reply View 10 replies
  • josephg a day ago

    Yep. And you can drag from the title bar in a lot of applications to get the open file. And all the shortcut keys are consistent across applications.

    I daily drive Linux mint. I can’t use ctrl+C in the terminal for Copy because that’s reserved for the interrupt signal. Fine - I’ll use meta+C. But I can’t use meta+C to copy in IntelliJ because the meta key isn’t a modifier key in Java. I’ve ended up needing to memorise different keys for copy+paste in every program I use. I mess it up on a daily basis. It’s madness!

    Linux is like that everywhere. I like smooth scrolling. Some applications support it properly. Some half support it, or add scrolling lag for no reason (Firefox) and some break completely, assuming every scroll event should scroll a few lines down. I eventually solved my software problems by buying a worse mouse without smooth scrolling support.

    Alt+mouse drag moves windows around. I love that feature! I can’t believe windows and macOS are missing it! But - oops. Alt+click is a thing in davinci resolve for adding keyframes. Urgh. It’s this. Over and over again constantly.

    Reply View 2 replies
    • rollcat a day ago

      > I can’t use ctrl+C in the terminal for Copy because that’s reserved for the interrupt signal.

      It's not reserved - the terminal emulator is free to handle any key, in any way, however it wants. Some examples:

      1. The XFCE terminal allows you to specify whether Alt+[X] means Meta-[X], or whether it should trigger a menu shortcut.

      2. macOS's Terminal.app: use System Settings to rebind Copy to Ctrl-C - when some text is selected, it copies that text; when there is no selection, it passes the ^C along.

      Unfortunately, few people question the status quo of terminal emulator design. Look at all the other emulators around you: quick save/load, customisable hotkeys (including gamepads), speed up/slow down, mute specific audio channels, enable/disable sprite/layer rendering, peek/poke memory, and so on. An average GBA or SNES emulator gives you better tools than most terminal emulators, and the latter are what is actually being used to get work done.

      Reply View 0 replies
    • cosmic_cheese a day ago

      Wait, if meta isn’t a modifier in Java how do key shortcuts in Java apps (including IntelliJ) work under macOS? Is this maybe just an oversight on Jetbrains’ part for the Linux versions of their IDEs?

      But yes, inconsistency being the only consistent thing in Linux is annoying to me too. It’s bad enough that I think a distro with a central feature of maintaining forks of everything to polish all of those little paper cuts would probably do well, particularly among switchers.

      Reply View 0 replies
  • linguae 2 days ago

    I agree. There have long been macOS-style skins for KDE, GNOME, and other desktop environments, and some of them do a good job at capturing the look of macOS. However, it’s the feel of macOS that makes macOS special. Additionally, it’s the Apple Human Interface Guidelines and the ecosystem of conformant apps on macOS that also contributes to the overall experience.

    That’s the core challenge with efforts like ElementaryOS, helloSystem, and ravynOS; it’s not enough to provide a polished desktop if we still have to deal with non-compliant apps.

    Of course, this is a challenge even for macOS in an era of Electron apps, and in the Windows ecosystem there’s much less of an emphasis on conformance to UI/UX guidelines.

    Reply View 1 reply
    • cosmic_cheese 2 days ago

      At least Electron apps populate the menubar under macOS. They do no such thing under Linux even if you’ve got a setup that features a global menubar (as KDE is capable of).

      Reply View 0 replies
  • robertoandred 2 days ago

    Unfortunately that experience keeps getting degraded. The hiding of proxy icons is crazy to me.

    Reply View 2 replies
  • pacifika 2 days ago

    This works in elementary OS

    Reply View 1 reply
    • favorited 2 days ago

      That tracks. Elementary's file browser is one of the only GUI options on Linux if you want Miller Columns. Your options at this point are basically Elementary/Pantheon Files, or GWorkspace...

      Reply View 0 replies
cosmic_cheese 2 days ago

I’ve been keeping an eye on these projects too. My hunch is that helloSystem is going to find Qt limiting as it matures, and while ravynOS’ approach is more likely to produce a high fidelity analogue, it’s also much larger in scope and likely to get bogged down in achieving compatibility with existing Mac binaries. I wish the best for both though, because they’re filling an extremely empty niche in the FOSS desktop space.

Reply View 0 replies