Comment by astrange

Comment by astrange 4 days ago

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> We try to attribute suffering to crappy world systems rather than personal deficiencies.

> We find ways to trust that our negative emotions signify something other than our own inadequacy — that they contain a deeply rational response to the world’s irrational injustice.

Believes suffering is caused by impermanent and changeable features of the world, and that the only alternative is a personal "deficiency"? Believes negative emotions are rational and arise due to clear causation by external forces? I've heard that one before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_marks_of_existence

What the article calls "dialectic" is called "non-dualism" in Buddhism; the author has gotten to the point where they recognize them, but maybe not to the important part which is to remember they aren't real. (Note that something being real or not real is also an incorrect dualism.)

ktimespi 4 days ago

DBT is based on Zen Buddhism, created by a psychologist suffering from borderline personality disorder

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  • astrange 3 days ago

    That's not very promising. Most versions of Zen are made-up export products designed to flatter Westerners. Kind of like the samurai movie honor bushido stuff.

    https://vividness.live/zen-vs-the-u-s-navy

    (Japanese people think Buddhism is a thing you do at funerals. If you get into it more seriously, I vaguely understand it's mostly a religion that tells you not to have sex.)

    In this case the more important question is whether it actually works.

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    • gxonatano 3 days ago

      > Most versions of Zen are made-up export products designed to flatter Westerners. Kind of like the samurai movie honor bushido stuff.

      I don't think so. If you go to a zenkai or a sesshin held by a western zendo, and then go to one at a Japanese temple, you won't notice too many differences, apart from the language. Many American zen teachers trained in Japan at some point, or their teachers did, and they brought these practices back more or less verbatim. In fact, in many American zendos, students chant the same sutras, _in Japanese_, as in Japanese zendos. Plus, there are regulatory bodies, like the Soto Zen school, that certify affiliated western zendos as authoritative. It's not made-up, it's hardly an "export product," and it certainly isn't designed to flatter anyone.

      > https://vividness.live/zen-vs-the-u-s-navy

      That seems like a rambling, self-published book by a Vajrayana practitioner with an axe to grind against Zen, for some bizarre reason. But there are plenty of real books about the rise of American Zen, or Buddhism in the west, that are well-researched. _Zen in America_ by Helen Tworkov is one.

      > Japanese people think Buddhism is a thing you do at funerals.

      Not at all. Buddhism, and Zen especially, permeate Japanese culture very deeply. Japanese aesthetics, architecture, landscape design, visual art, calligraphy, the tea ceremony, and the martial arts, have all been strongly influenced by Zen. And it's all over pop culture, too—just think of how pervasive Daruma dolls are—that's Bodhidharma, the founder of Zen. Sure, Buddhism is at funerals, but it's everywhere, else, too.

      > If you get into it more seriously, I vaguely understand it's mostly a religion that tells you not to have sex.

      Maybe you're thinking of Christianity? Unless you're a monk, attitudes towards sex are fairly liberal in Buddhism. There are bodhisattva precepts that caution against misusing sex, but nowhere does anyone tell you not to have it. In fact, it's largely unconcerned with it, let alone "mostly a religion that tells you not to have" it. Western religions are very concerned with telling you what to do and not do, but Buddhism is concerned with liberation.

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      • lmm 3 days ago

        > > Japanese people think Buddhism is a thing you do at funerals.

        > Buddhism, and Zen especially, permeate Japanese culture very deeply. Japanese aesthetics, architecture, landscape design, visual art, calligraphy, the tea ceremony, and the martial arts, have all been strongly influenced by Zen. And it's all over pop culture, too—just think of how pervasive Daruma dolls are—that's Bodhidharma, the founder of Zen. Sure, Buddhism is at funerals, but it's everywhere, else, too.

        Your statement may be true but so is the grandparent's. (Although I agree that there isn't much about not having sex; mainly you hear about monks don't eat meat, or at least not while people are looking)

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    • lazide 3 days ago

      Well, and most Catholics only go to mass once a year. If then.

      There is a bit more to it, if you’re interested though.

      Most westerners also do a lot more Yoga than typical Indians.

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