Comment by rs186

Comment by rs186 3 days ago

You can't, at least for production code. I have used Claude Code for vibe coding several side projects now, some just for fun, others more serious and need to be well written and maintainable. For the former, as long as it works, I don't care, but I could easily see issues like dependency management. Then for the latter, because I actually need to personally verify every detail of the final product and review (which means "scan" at the least) the code, I always see a lot of issues -- tightly coupled code that makes testing difficult, missing test cases, using regex when it shouldn't, having giant classes that are impossible to read/maintain. Well, many of the issues you see humans do. I needed to constantly interrupt and ask it to do something different.

the_mitsuhiko 3 days ago

> You can't, at least for production code.

You can. People do. It's not perfect at it yet, but there are success stories of this.

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noodletheworld 3 days ago

Are you talking about the same thing as the OP?
I mean, the parent even pointed out that it works for vibe coding and stuff you don't care about; ...but the 'You can't' refers to this question by the OP:
> I really need to approve every single edit and keep an eye on it at ALL TIMES, otherwise it goes haywire very very fast! How are people using auto-edits and these kind of higher-level abstraction?
No one I've spoken to is just sitting back writing tickets while agents do all the work. If it was that easy to be that successful, everyone would be doing it. Everyone would be talking about it.
To be absolutely clear, I'm not saying that you can't use agents to modify existing code. You can. I do; lots of people do. ...but that's using it like you see in all the demos and videos; at a code level, in an editor, while editing and working on the code yourself.
I'm specifically addressing the OPs question:
Can you use unsupervised agents, where you don't interact at a 'code' level, only at a high level abstraction level?
...and, I don't think you can. I don't believe anyone is doing this. I don't believe I've seen any real stories of people doing this successfully.

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- adriand 3 days ago
  
  > Can you use unsupervised agents, where you don't interact at a 'code' level, only at a high level abstraction level?
  My view, after having gone all-in with Claude Code (almost only Opus) for the last four weeks, is ”no”. You really can’t. The review process needs to be diligent and all-encompassing and is, quite frankly, exhausting.
  One improvement I have made to my process for this is to spin up a new Claude Code instance (or clear context) and ask for a code review based on the diff of all changes. My prompt for this is carefully structured. Some issues it identifies can be fixed with the agent, but others need my involvement. It doesn’t eliminate the need to review everything, but it does help focus some of my efforts.
  
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stavros 3 days ago

Do you know of any links to writeups (or just mentions) of this?

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- threecheese 3 days ago
  
  Check out the_mitsuhiko’s youtube, he has been showing some good techniques in the past few weeks.
  
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  stavros 3 days ago
  
  I don't trust Armin for that, he's too good a developer for vibe coding. The question is whether someone who can't program at all can make something that works well with LLMs, not whether Armin can.
  
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- the_mitsuhiko 3 days ago
  
  There are few writeups but if you go to agentic coding meetups you can find people that show the stuff the build. It’s really quite impressive.
  
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  mac-mc 3 days ago
  
  Do they go into the architecture and code structure, or more just the user-facing result? Coding agents do a lot of copy-paste or near equivalents and make way too much code to accomplish many things.
  
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  stavros 3 days ago
  
  Ah, we don't have any such meetups where I am... Are these from people who can't program at all?
  
  Reply View | 2 replies