Comment by bayindirh

Comment by bayindirh 4 days ago

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> No, fountain pens have a "cool" factor and can be made for decorative stuff, but that's it.

I would not disagree more. A fountain pen writes with zero pressure. In contrast modern rollerballs and gel pens have a little spring to prevent contact leaking. Uni might have a patent on that. Famously Pilot's Hi-Techpoint pens doesn't have that and it stains the place where it touches.

A fountain pen can outlast any disposable pen, allows you to write 5x longer without any strain, promote better writing quality and writing habits, and lives with you and becomes tuned to your handwriting in a couple of months to a year.

Moreover, hand writing is better for your brain and concentration than typing on a glowing box which strains your eyes, hands and brain with constant distractions.

NoGravitas 4 days ago

I agree with you - the low/no pressure that a fountain pen writes with is important. However, I will say that decent rollerballs (eg UniBall Vision) require only the weight of the pen itself, which means there is very little difference from fountain pens (but not none).

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  • bayindirh 4 days ago

    Recently I restarted using my Vision Elite rollerball and Signo gel pen, because the last notebook's paper didn't play well with my fountain pens.

    While I love these pens as well, they require a little bit more pressure than a fountain pen, and their difference becomes very apparent in long writing sessions.

    Being said that, they're probably the best rollerballs and gel pens you can use, because of their pigmented inks and archival qualities. Plus their blue black is a nice color, and Vision Elite can actually shade while writing.

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dsubburam 4 days ago

Also, a fountain pen can be held at a smaller angle to the paper. Unlike the other kinds of pens, it even tends to write better that way. I find the smaller angle more comfortable to hold.

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Dilettante_ 4 days ago

>becomes tuned to your handwriting

I didn't know that, what's the noticeable difference?

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  • bayindirh 4 days ago

    As you know, almost all fountain pen nibs (sans some specialty ones) come with some tipping. This is a very hard alloy engineered to resist wear and tear.

    Some manufacturers have their own formulations and grinding characteristics, and some manufacturers use "default" versions supplied by the nib vendor.

    As the user writes, this tipping material starts to get polished. This can take from a couple of months (e.g. Lamy) to years (e.g. Pilot, Sailor). Since the user keeps the pen at a certain angle, the same area gets polished a lot.

    This makes the pen write smoother when held "correctly" (i.e. the way the user holds), reduces contact pressure (pen starts writing almost before touching the paper) and makes the pen a little wetter in some cases, making it more reliable and enjoyable to use.

    After some point you can write without ever thinking about the pen, because it never skips (even like gels, rollerballs and ballpoints), and becomes an extension of you. It's hard to precisely and accurately describe though.

    For example, I have an old Lamy Safari which writes slightly broader than its Medium designation because of this. I can understand whether my Pilot Metropolitan is happy with the ink or not from how it feels on paper. I have another Pilot which feels like glass on paper due to the same effect (it was already a smooth grind but it got even smoother over time).

    Another advantage of fountain pens is the writing characteristics is a constant. Since you don't change the nib with every refill, you don't get the frustration of a bad writing pen when you replace your disposable pen or refill. You only refill the ink.

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    • eXpl0it3r 4 days ago

      Except that the pen keeps failing a lot faster as the ink is depleted and the pen writes different whether it runs nearly dry, has to get the ink fully flowing again, or when there's plenty of ink and it flows smoothly.

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      • bayindirh 4 days ago

        Uh, no?

        The feed buffers enough ink allowing you to change the cartridge or refill the pen before it runs completely dry though.

        Also, I tend to use a small cartridge between three weeks and a month depending on the nib size. Considering I fill my notepad in six months, this is plenty of ink. When I write with a gel pen, the ink level is visibly different when I finish the day, so there's that.

        If you use a Lamy or use long international cartridges, these durations are at least doubled (6-8 weeks of writing per cartridge).

        If you fancy to see the ink level, some pens have windows, and demonstrators are clear all over already. :)

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    • yallpendantools 4 days ago

      As a fellow fountain-pen enthusiast, I highly doubt this idea that the pen (and especially the nib) becomes "tuned" to your writing. I think it's either [a] placebo effect or [b] the other way around---the hand becomes "tuned" to the pen---or [c] it's more about the other parts of the pen (e.g., body, feed), and rarely, if ever at all, the nib.

      > This is a very hard alloy engineered to resist wear and tear.

      > As the user writes, this tipping material starts to get polished.

      "Polish" is making a surface more even than before either by [a] filling it in with substance so that the depressions in the surface becomes level with the peaks or [b] filing away (i.e., introducing wear) at the surface so that the peaks become level with the depressions.

      Either way, I don't see how it can be achieved with writing. Paper and ink doesn't have anything that can achieve [a] nor is it enough to achieve [b]---even over time---otherwise the nib isn't made of alloy that can resist wear and tear.

      I'm prepared to wager that a well-used but well-cared for nib isn't gonna exhibit a more polished angle. It could tarnish. It could build-up a patina. Maybe it could have some chemical residues from previous inks. But to have a significant and highly-localized deviation from when it was brand-new, I highly doubt it.

      Another part of my hypothesis is that you don't actually keep the pen at the same angle everytime you write. You still produce the same(ish) handwriting but writing angle is easily affected by external factors. In other words, the writer compensates for these external factors subconsciously in order to produce the same handwriting. E.g., I write differently on my journal vs. if I'm filling out a form. I write differently when I'm jotting down notes in a meeting vs. something more deliberate. I might adjust angles if the paper has a different texture, or if the ink isn't drying as quickly. I would write differently on my desk at home vs. a hotel room desk. Heck, I write differently at the start, middle, and end of a journal.

      I'm just saying this because I think people could stress over fountain pens over what is basically superstition and there's already plenty to think of when using fountain pens. It won't change your pen's "attunement" if you lend it for friends to try occasionally. Conversely, don't be afraid to give second-hand pens a try just because the previous owner's writing style might be too different from yours.

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      • bayindirh 4 days ago

        Hey! Welcome. Let me respectfully disagree with you with my stained fingers.

        I'm using fountain pens as my primary writing instrument for more than 15 years now. My familiarity with these marvelous things go back even longer than that. So, I believe I know a couple of things, probably not much as you, about them.

        First let me start with the polishing issue. Not all paper is same, and even smooth paper is very abrasive in its nature. You can actually slowly polish a fountain pen nib with a coarse brown bag. If you want to do it faster, you can use a micromesh (which I'm too coward to use). If you search Fountain Pen Network, there are tons of resources how to work with both.

        If I understood it correctly, you said that the nib is not made of an alloy that can resist wear and tear. Yes, that's true. Today's nibs are mostly steel or gold alloys. However tips of said nibs are different. If you want to watch how Lamy's nibs are made in house, you can watch [0]. The link I shared starts right at the nib production and finishing process.

        I'll politely counter your wager about nib polishing with another anecdote. My father gave all his fountain pens to me since he's not using them anymore. One of them is used everyday for years, and he uses his pens at a slight angle. The well used pen writes scratchy when I hold it like my other pens, but writes buttery smooth when I hold like him. Another pen also exhibits this but to a lesser degree. Interestingly, when my father tries my pens, they write a bit scratchy because of his holding angle. The seldom used pens write smooth regardless of the holding angle (they are essentially new old stock).

        Another interesting anecdote is between me and another pen enthusiast. I have a particular Lamy Safari which I use every day. Also, Lamy's tipping material is a bit softer than other manufacturers, so they polish faster. We tried a couple dozen pens that day. He took that Safari, wrote with it and said "this is a well tamed nib. did you polish it?". He didn't know that it was my EDC pen.

        You said that your pen holding angle changes depending on what you write. Mine don't. I keep my pens at a very particular angle independent of what/how I write. So much that, my Metropolitan writes a little scratchy if I hold it too close to the nib, near the front end of the finger rest, and I don't even use pressure. But that pen is with me every day for more than six years (or more? IDK).

        Another thing about nibs is flex (not like a flex nib, much more subtle) or breaking in, which is very apparent in Kaweco pens. That little, stubby bastards' nibs always start a little dry. After a couple pen flushes and with some writing, they start to break in. They start to write the way it should after a couple of weeks generally. When they find their tune, they write pretty dependable though. Lastly, Montblanc says their nibs need a couple of weeks before reaching their true performance. I want to experience this some time in the future, but I can't today.

        A well-used nib doesn't exhibit a Lamy 2000 like "narrow sweet spot", the angle doesn't get narrower, but that sweet spot develops a sweeter spot if you write at the same angle after some point, depending on the tipping material and geometry.

        I mean, I have a lot of pens, and I can distinguish between an unused nib and a well used one on the same body and same ink just from the feel for it.

        I'd love to continue this friendly discussion. Heck if I had a macro lens, I'd happily share close up photos of the said nibs, so we can learn together, but alas.

        I'm not afraid of fountain pens, or second hand pens in general. I got myself a nice Pilot Elite from a pen show this year. I need to fix its nib (it's a bit loose), but it's a well used buddy with a buttery smooth gold nib.

        [0]: https://youtu.be/2jf3lbhQR6I?t=98

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